You know what I see from that conversation with your wife? Not specific points, per se, but the fact that neither one of you felt 'heard' by the other. She's making her point, you're making your point, and nothing is getting resolved.
I personally feel that your wife believes that the crap she threw out at you is legitimate. She does not realize she is spewing crap. She feels what she feels, honestly and deeply. (So do you, I know... I'm not minimizing you, just thinking this through, starting with her).
You moving to the basement is only going to underscore her mistrust of you. She will again be a victim... you will be 'abandoning' her, and hell will freeze over before she asks you to move back into your bedroom. It will become yet another giant 'power play' between you.
Keep in mind, HD, that the objective here is to NOT make a point or a statement, but to resolve the issue. I'm not saying you shouldn't move to the basement, but I think you should wait a bit. She is still seeing the marriage as a yours, mine and ours thing. Think this through.
Honey has an excellent point in that though your wife has gone through a lot, it does not give her the right to put the marriage on 'hold' until she feels better. She is never going to feel better. There will always be something... and that is because she is more interested in being heard than fixing the problem.
Are you willing to find a Schnarch type counselor in your area, HD? Can you do it now, today? Because this is what I am thinking you should do. Send your wife an email that says this:
Mrs. HD:
I need you to know, really know, that I understand everything you said to me this morning. I hear you.
I also need you to know that I believe our marriage is facing some very serious issues which you and I are having a very difficult time resolving on our own.
I want to be a kind of H who hears you and can reassure you in the ways that are most meaningful to you. But given that I feel my wants and needs are not being addressed in ways that are meaningful to me, I am having a very hard time being the type of H you need.
In view of this, I need to find a marriage counselor who can help us resolve our issues. I would very much appreciate it if you'd go with me, but if you don't feel you can, then I am going alone. There is nothing more important to me than you and our family. I think we have some serious issues. If we don't get them fixed, it won't matter what house we live in or what house we buy. You and I are the glue that holds it all together. If there is no us, there is nothing.
Please consider it.
Mr. HD
And then I'd get your butt to a counselor, HD. I promise you, this will make a more meaningful statement to your wife than moving to the basement.
I called the Marriage and Family Health Center in Evergreen Colorado and left a message for them to (hopefully) call me back with a Schnarchy counselor near me. Thanks for the advice, Corri.
I still feel like moving to the basement. I don't feel welcome in the bedroom, and it is downright painful for me to be next to her and not be able to touch her. I find myself laying awake for far too long, wondering if I'd wake her up if I just barely touched her breasts, etc. It's not a good, healthy thing to be thinking about. I'd be moving there for my own good, not necessarily hers.
I'm voting against the basement for two reasons. The first is what Corri told you: it will make her a victim (again) and play right into her hand.
The other is more basic: there's no impetus to work on things when you're not together. I see a move to the basement ending up with the two of you living seperate lives under the same roof. That will relieve some of the stress from both of you, which is good. But it will also probably lead to both of you feeling better, at least temporarily, and wondering if living apart is so much better, why not really live apart.
My advice, FWIW, is to hang in there. It may be painful for you, but if you believe the things that Corri said in the proposed email to Mrs. HD, you're going to have to suck it up and endure the pain. You need to show her that you're really trying, not just taking the easy way out. Your actions need to say that it may be hard, but that you truely believe that the result is worth the effort.
Listen to me here, buddy. I'm not saying you can't move to the basement. I'm asking you to wait a week, then make the decision. That's all.
If your moving to the basement is a sound decision, it is going to be sound 'now' and a week from now. I am asking you to give yourself time to be sure of your clarity. Part of what is getting both your W and you into trouble is impulsiveness. And while impulsiveness may feel good at the moment, its long term effects can come back to cause you an even bigger problem.
Remember. The objective here is to RESOLVE the issue(s). Not to create more. If tonight you feel better letting her go to bed first and you falling asleep on the couch, so be it. But don't remove your presence from the room. Don't make it a statement, "I'm leaving and I'm not coming back until you invite me (ie., get my way)."
Do you see? Let the notion "I can move to the basement anytime I want' be the power you need to stay in the bedroom. Sometimes, just knowing we have options to leave is the exact thing that can keep us right where we are.
Just wait a week, k? I know you are hurt and pissed as helll, and no one blames you. Fine. Be pissed. Be hurt. But stay in the bedroom.
I also vote no basement. I though that moving out might wake the H up, but all it did was make him decide that he did not want to work on the marriage. He felt betrayed because I left the house and gave him an excuse to not do anything else. (Like he ever did much in the first place, but I digress) She might think of the move to the basement as a hostile action, so don't go there. I know the pain of being in the same bed with the person that you love and you can't touch them, but it's better than starting WWIII.
Okay, enough already. I'll stay in the bedroom. Sheesh.
Corri, I liked your statement: "Let the notion "I can move to the basement anytime I want' be the power you need to stay in the bedroom." This is so helpful. And your suggestion about falling asleep on the couch and letting her go to bed first is a good one, too. I was actually getting kind of buzzed about having some new "space" downstairs, and that's not the direction I needed to be moving.
What I think I need to say to her is, "this is OUR room. It is OUR bed. It is OUR house. You need to recognize that and respect it. If there is some time when you need some private time in a room in which you feel safe, try to ask nicely and I will consider sleeping elsewhere. But stop forcing me out...it just makes me want to dig my heels in, and I know you are a heel-digger, too, so you should be able to respect that from me."
So I'll stay there. But if I get caught squeezing her boob in the middle of the night, it's YOUR fault, SSMers.
Quote: So I'll stay there. But if I get caught squeezing her boob in the middle of the night, it's YOUR fault, SSMers.
Good decision. I can just see you lying in the bed tucked in all comfy in your pjs smiling innocently at Mrs. HD as she enters the room with a scowl on her face. I think you SHOULD squeeze her boob if you want to too. Make her say "Don't squeeze my boob!' if she doesn't want you to squeeze her boob. Why should you assume that she isn't interested in boob squeezing? What is she going to do- call 911 and say "Please come over here and arrest my H because he squeezed my boob without asking for my permission.". IMO the worst case scenario will be you and a couple cops laughing your *sses off on your front lawn.
However, I do understand the appeal of the basement. You could hit a couple thrift stores for some bean bag chairs and order some black light posters from E-bay. If you end up moving down there, I think you should invite all the HDWs on the board over for a live support group meeting. I can just imagine the look on Mrs. HD's face when we ring the doorbell and she finds us standing on the porch looking just a bit too slutty to be at the wrong house for the Tupperware party and HP says "Hi, we're the members of HD' support group. He said to just go right down to the basement for the meeting. Is that right?".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hey, Where's the party? I could bring some, er, "decorations" from the last bachelorette party that I threw a few years ago.... Might make Mrs. HD wonder just waht kind of friends her hubby really has.....
