Thanks, heapmom. You don't know how comforting it is to know there is someone in Finland thinking about me. And, if Superdave shows up, that will be someone in the UK. We used to have someone in Australia, but she disappeared...probably carried off by some dingoes or kangaroos.
It gives my problem a global perspective to know that people in other continents are thinking about me. Act locally, think globally.
Hairdog - getting very goofy as quitting time nears.
P.S. I think we've all, regardless of libido, pulled some crap on our spouses that caused intimacy to go south. When the day comes that you see your part in it, it isn't fun.
I will most likely struggle with my H for the rest of my life to keep my sex life at something that we can both live with and enjoy. But I can tell you honestly that I will never go back to the stupidity that caused it to suck in the first place. Power plays, misplaced boundaries, pretty much everything you said.
CAC4 try to see the shades of gray. Being ready to end a relationship has many levels, Living in another room of the house, seperation for a short time or a long time, and even divorcing and possibily remarrying the same W again.
I used to feel taken advantage of in my R, wanted to avoid the angry remarks of W, and was told by W she did not have to worry about me being unfaithful to her because "NO BODY would ever want me." W was going to buy "Her self a condo." I finally got up the nerve and said go ahead. And do not expect me to dog sit, change channels (entertainment center gets locked up and you can not make any changes), or explain any investment litature to you.
Things are chainging for the better for me. I applied some ideas about making me happy. W still has issues with me, but I refuse to play her game without consequences that I think she would regret.
I am not suggesting anyone be mean or selfish. Just be aware of crap and do not let crap run your R. If you let gargage hapen over and over again, resentment builds, and how can 10+ years resentment lead to a loving relationship?
OG Lou Setting appropiate and firm boundries. Getting more respect from family.
On the subject of "feeling taken advantage of," my W is in the habit of going away for a few days and giving me a long list of things to do. When she returns and inevitably, one of the things didn't get done, she nails me for that one thing, no matter how many things I actually did do. The key to not being walked all over on these occasions is to take the offensive. Her absence causes us all a lot of hassle. I have a tirade ready if necessary. But I don't use it if she acts all nice. But if I small one of her patented complaints coming, I'm like a ton of bricks. It's funny, but if my tirade is justified, she doesn't get angry, she just lays off.
I am the one that wants a sexual relationship, but I also like to have some time to chill. W acts as if a day unplanned is a day wasted.
CAC4 try to see the shades of gray. Being ready to end a relationship has many levels, Living in another room of the house, seperation for a short time or a long time, and even divorcing and possibily remarrying the same W again.
I guess I still don't quite understand...but I'm trying! I just don't see that I have any "leverage" to speak of. moving to a different room would be anything but welcomed. "find some desire, or else..." or else what?"
Quote:
I used to feel taken advantage of in my R, wanted to avoid the angry remarks of W, and was told by W she did not have to worry about me being unfaithful to her because "NO BODY would ever want me." W was going to buy "Her self a condo." I finally got up the nerve and said go ahead. And do not expect me to dog sit, change channels (entertainment center gets locked up and you can not make any changes), or explain any investment litature to you.
ouch. that's harsh. In my case, it would be true...but still harsh! seriously...we don't have that sort of "nasty" dynamic going on. we never fight. we're not mean to each other. we just don't have sex, because one of us isn't interested.
Quote: If you let gargage hapen over and over again, resentment builds, and how can 10+ years resentment lead to a loving relationship?
it doesn't. I don't see how it possibly could. But at the same time, I don't see any way to avoid it, or change it. perhaps I just can't see the forrest for the trees.
Thanks, Lou. I appreciate your post. Crap has been running my relationship for too long. I didn't sleep in my bedroom last night, because she basically ran me out. Tonight I will not sleep there either, but it will definitely be my choice.
mandk: I have faced the dreaded list, too. What bull sh!t. I've started making my own lists, and I get MY items done first.
W and I have played phone tag all day, and now I expect she'll be home in 1-2 hours. Time to enjoy my DD3...I just put her sand back into her sandbox. She was thrilled.
Quote: my W is in the habit of going away for a few days and giving me a long list of things to do. When she returns and inevitably, one of the things didn't get done, she nails me
What would happen if when she gives you the list and there are 10 things on it, you say, "I'll get to five of these, if I can. I'm telling you this ahead of time so you won't get mad that I didn't do all of them. I realize they're all important, and I'll do as many as I can, but I will do at least five."
If she says, "Then let me tell you which five are the most important," you say, "No, that would take all the fun out of it for me. I'LL choose which five and surprise you!"
If there are 20, say you'll do 10. If there are 50, keep it at 10.
I would never do this to my bf BTW, and never did it to my husband either. I was very uncomfortable asking for help with stuff around the house. Felt like it was ALL my responsibility. I guess because it was that way when I was a kid. My mom and I did all chores, repairs, moving furniture, etc. My bf does MANY things for me on his own (which is a real treat-- his LL is acts of service) and actually wants to know what I want him to do (but I'm still not real comfortable asking).
Last night, W got home around 7:30, was all chatty and friendly and even gave me a hug, which I returned half-heartedly. We didn't talk too much.
This morning she wanted to talk, and I told her that I was seriously considering moving to the basement (finished basement with full bath, futon/couch, and places that I could hang up my clothes. W: Well, that kind of negates anything I was going to say. H: Go ahead and say it.
She started talking about all the sacrifices she had made in order to move here, leaving a job she loved, a house she loved, etc, and the upheaval it presented. She noted that when I tell her that I didn't ask her to move her, she says it makes her feel awful. She told me she needed me to be more supportive, less demanding, tell her "thank you" for being here, "thank you" for doing things she does for the family, "good job" on what she does at work, etc. Words of affirmation? Yes...her Love Languages seem to be vacillating between quality time, words of affirmation, and acts of service.
I think I do a pretty good job with all three of these LLs, but she really focuses on what I don't give her. She told me that, until she really settles into this town and feels comfortable with her job, her professional contacts, my kids, etc., she doesn't want me demanding ANYTHING from her.
I told her that I don't DEMAND anything, just that I state my needs. I told her that she is minimizing my needs, and telling me that her needs are more important. She basically stated that her needs ARE more important, and until she feels comfortable here, I should lay off. She's been here a year, and that is not enough. She has no idea when she'll reach that point.
I told her that she should be glad, then, that I want to move downstairs, as this will be one less place where I might be liable to express my needs to her. I said this in a straightforward manner, not sarcastic at all. She got all pissy and said "do what you need to do."
H: I will do what I need to do. I don't feel welcome in "your" bed anymore. Or in "your" room. W: This is my place to come when I need to get away. This is my safe place. H: That just makes it more likely that you will kick me out when the moment suits you. Or call 911. W: I didn't really call 911 . . . H: You wanted me to believe you did. No different than robbing a bank with an unloaded gun. It's still armed robbery. W: I wanted you out! H: So, the ends justify the means, I guess? And telling me that you were going to tell the police I had abused you, that's just despicable. That's the last thing my Ex-W said before I walked out of the house, so that I wouldn't take my daughter with me. W: I didn't know that the abuse thing was a "trigger" for you. H: So you're minimizing my reaction again. And, by the way, the abuse allegation is a "trigger" for any man, not just me. W: I'm sorry. H: Just because you said you're sorry doesn't mean I am ready to forgive you for that.
Again, no doubt to deflect any blame I was casting on her, she focused on her needs, and that she doesn't need to hear about my needs right now.
H: Well, I NEED to go to work. I think it's likely I'll move downstairs.
And I left.
By the way, I think it was NOPkins who said that there are different levels of separation: moving out of the bedroom, out of the house, divorcing, etc. I have you to thank for opening my eyes to some of my options. Someone else said yesterday that they won't go where they aren't invited, which made me think about how I don't feel invited to our bed anymore.
Our sex life tanked years ago. The move to KC and the "upheaval" it caused is just the latest excuse, interspersed with the "too hot" "too itchy" etc. excuses which she uses for the sake of variety. I think that I will move to the basement and will refuse to move back to the bedroom until things improve. Hey, the basement is the coolest place in the summer, and it has a nice gas fireplace for the winter. It has a TV with DVD and surround sound, a kickazz stereo, and yes, even easy access to the screened porch and the hot tub. It's not that big of a sacrifice.
Take some of the power back that currently resides with her.
I think she needs a strong man but would NEVER admit it. She wants to see you calling her on her bullsh!t and you did just that.
I think that her saying that she needs adjustment time is legitimate...but I wouldn't accept that as an excuse for why it's ok to shut your partner out. I would respond to that that you are willing to do whatever it takes to make her adjustment more pleasant EXCEPT sacrifice your marriage in the process.
I too had to threaten to move out of our bedroom to get his attention. I was ready to do it too and had called around, shopping for beds.
My vote is to stay in the basement til she is ready to work on things SEXUALLY. Didja hear that Mrs.HD?! SEXUALLY. Not emotionally or words of affirmationally or acts of serviceally but SEXUALLY!!!!!!!!
seriously...we don't have that sort of "nasty" dynamic going on. we never fight. we're not mean to each other. we just don't have sex, because one of us isn't interested. 
