Quote: I am appreciating all the comments. Doubtful this will happen tonight as we have four kids going in different directions, an ice cream social, etc....
But I must tell you all this--Hairdog is psyched, ready for battle, always ready for love, and hopeful for change.
Hairdog
By the time you read this, you've already had the talk, or your trying to keep yourself pysched up for it tonight - either way, go for it doggy!! Hope W finally starts to realize how lucky she is.
1st - cac4, HOM is "holding onto myself" - in my situation, it means staying calm and reasonable during our arguments, telling myself when she rejects me that it's her loss, etc.
2nd - we didn't have the talk last night, as we were, predictably, busy. But she was nicer, seemed even a bit more relaxed around me. Still, when we were laying in bed and I put my hand on her hip, she immediately removed it, saying "too hot." And she said in her email she's not pushing me away. Can she not realize that when she does these "hand removals" that I believe that equals "pushing away"? When I feel as if I can't touch her without getting my hand moved by her, uhhhh, that to me is clearly "pushing away." I guess I need to clarify that for her.
I think you should have addressed the "hand push" right when it happened. If you want your sex life to improve, you have to make it your absolute top priority for a while. That might mean not worrying about getting a good night's sleep or cancelling social engagements etc. The last big crucible convo that my H and I had started right before we were due at my MIL's for lunch. My H called her and said "Mojo and I are having a big fight. I'm sorry but we are going to have to skip brunch.". We didn't even concern ourselves with the fact that it was obvious to our kids that we were "fighting". You really need to get to the point where it is clear to both of you just exactly what is at stake and how important it is to address it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Fuzzy, I agree with MM, if you address being pushed away when it happens, at least your W will have a concrete idea of what you mean by being pushed away. She can choose to respond or not, but you can almost bet that she will be thinking about it. You are giving her a gift by letting her know what is going on inside you.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Thanks Mojo and CN. Here's my fusionitis (word describing what we go through when we predict what the other spouse's reaction will be): W: Too hot (pushing hand away) H: I would really like to touch you somewhere. When you push my hand away, that is what I meant when I said I feel you pushing away. It's both physical and emotional for me. W: Sorry, it's just too hot. I don't want you touching me.
And how do you answer that? H: But I really WANT to touch you? No, she'd just say, too bad...it's too hot, and (the ol') until you are okay with me saying "no" then I won't feel like saying "yes."
If she does not feel like being touched -- for whatever reason -- why should I put my "wants" before hers? Do I just leave her with, "I just want you to know that I want to touch you; that when you push my hand away and I don't get to touch you for several days in a row, it leaves me feeling emotionally isolated from you"?
Maybe the answer is obvious, but right now it's not.
How about saying, "Why don't you touch me then? I need some physical closeness from you."
Does everything have to go from Hairy-to-Wifey or can she be expected to reciprocate if it feels hot to have your hands on her?
I do this with my H, who btw is also plagued and disgusted by my hot hands, and sometimes he will gladly touch me; others it comes with sighs and a bad attitude.
Man I am absolutely hormonal and ready to tear someone's head off today so you guys should take what I say with a grain.
Quote: I think you should have addressed the "hand push" right when it happened. If you want your sex life to improve, you have to make it your absolute top priority for a while. That might mean not worrying about getting a good night's sleep or cancelling social engagements etc. The last big crucible convo that my H and I had started right before we were due at my MIL's for lunch. My H called her and said "Mojo and I are having a big fight. I'm sorry but we are going to have to skip brunch.". We didn't even concern ourselves with the fact that it was obvious to our kids that we were "fighting". You really need to get to the point where it is clear to both of you just exactly what is at stake and how important it is to address it.
MM,
Thanks for sharing this. It's so easy to forget that it's gotta go this way - I keep thinking I should wait for a good time, try to plan things so that H is rested and in a good mood, we don't have anything going on...but we'll never get anywhere that way.
H informed me this morning that's he's already starting to feel the winter 'blues', and it's going to be bad this year. (this isn't really an avoidance technique, he does have SAD in a bad way, and this year will be bad, as we didn't have any sun this summer either) So I'm starting to feel like they'll be no real progress 'till spring . Guess I have to make H understand that he has to treat that, too.
That's a good idea, HP. She RARELY touches me while we're in bed. It is almost always Hairdog to W touching that occurs. It's worth a shot.
Heapmom - have you looked into purchasing those light banks that are supposed to treat SAD? I'm sure a quick search on Google would offer many brands for sale.
How about just insisting that she recognizes that your feelings are just as important as her bodily comfort at the moment. What's wrong with giving you a quick kiss and saying "I'm sorry. It's just too hot to snuggle tonight.". She can enforce her boundaries in ways that are affectionate and polite rather than ways that are brusque and rude. As another example, my D has always been a super-snuggler and for years she would cuddle on the couch with me in the evening. Sometimes I would find this physically uncomfortable (hot, too much weight, cramped legs etc.) but I would never boot her off the sofa without saying something like "I love you snugglepuff but I really need to stretch my legs.". I cared too much about her feelings to be less kind.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: And how do you answer that? H: But I really WANT to touch you? No, she'd just say, too bad...it's too hot, and (the ol') until you are okay with me saying "no" then I won't feel like saying "yes."
If she does not feel like being touched -- for whatever reason -- why should I put my "wants" before hers? Do I just leave her with, "I just want you to know that I want to touch you; that when you push my hand away and I don't get to touch you for several days in a row, it leaves me feeling emotionally isolated from you"?
Maybe the answer is obvious, but right now it's not.
Hairdog, if I knew the answer to THAT, I wouldn't be here. This is EXACTLY the kinds of things my wife does, and I have struggled and (I guess) failed, because there's absolutely no way for me to NOT take it personally. Lips turned away so that a kiss turns into a peck on the cheek . . . a leg moved away from mine in bed . . . a "suggestive" I-M exchange skillfully diverted into another direction . . . these things just KILL me, and I've never been able to successfully "call" her on it at the time. I bring them up LATER, when we have our big fights/discussions about the HD/LD thing, but never with any real resolution.
All of the psychological gobbledegook aside, how is a warm-blooded human being NOT supposed to take it personally when the woman they love more than anyone else in the world turns them away with these moves?
Choc., who can RELATE, but unfortunately has no solutions for you...
. Guess I have to make H understand that he has to treat that, too.