Lillie, Are you sure you haven't had any training in counseling or therapy?
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
That was unlike anything I've ever read on here, and something that really has me thinking. I think you're saying that there's a "3rd way" between the "black" of trying to "solve" her vents, and the "white" of accepting her cop-out behavior -- just LISTEN to her.
I guess I'm afraid that by listening to these complaints, I'm validating them??
Choc, I think you are correct in saying you're afraid you'll be validating her. But that's exactly what she needs: validation of her feelings. Her feelings ARE valid, no matter how much they don't make sense to you. There is some internal logic to why she is feeling overwhelmed. But you both must be still and listen to find out what it is.
I think you're also afraid that if you start listening to her spill her guts, she'll never stop, that y'all's (there's that word again!) world will come to a stop while she just sits and complains, AND that if you seem to agree that she is justified in feeling overwhelmed, that YOU will wind up taking on all of her stuff in addition to your stuff, and YOU will wind up overwhelmed. But, in truth, you can't predict what direction the interaction will take once you two really feel safe with each other... her to tell you how she feels, and you to listen. It could be very exciting. (Isn't this pure Schnarch?)
I believe that she just wants you to hear her expression of feelings and to validate that her feelings are okay and a perfectly understandable response to the situation she is in. There is NO risk to you in doing this. ALL you have to do is listen and extend compassion.
My experience is that after being truly heard and validated, suddenly I'm full of energy and all the things I've been putting off seem easy and doable.
Cine, I did have some counseling classes in grad school, but mostly I've just been a patient for a zillion years!
Quote: I think you're also afraid that if you start listening to her spill her guts, she'll never stop, that y'all's (there's that word again!) world will come to a stop while she just sits and complains, AND that if you seem to agree that she is justified in feeling overwhelmed, that YOU will wind up taking on all of her stuff in addition to your stuff, and YOU will wind up overwhelmed.
Lillie, ABSOLUTELY I am, you'd better believe it. I'm afraid I'll end up even MORE overwhelmed and depressed than I already am, and I'll STILL have the messy house and no sex life that I had BEFORE the "come-to-Jesus" session!
I guess I also feel that WE HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS -- probably two dozen times over the past 15 years -- THIS IS NOT NEW! It drives me nuts that my wife always wants to re-hash the same things over, and over, and talk 'em to death, blah-blah-blah... I'm more of a "ok, you KNOW what the problem is -- now go and DO something about it and quit bitching and moaning about it" guy.
In other words, I'm a very understanding husband when it comes to hearing her out over some NEW challenge she's facing, but I have so very little patience for listening to her b.s. about this SAME old challenge ("I feel overwhelmed", "nobody helps me", "I don't know who I am anymore", "we just don't have any FUN/JOY anymore", etc.
That broken-record thing is very discouraging. You feel like the pioneers who got to the edge of the plains and then just drove in those huge ruts that the travelers ahead of them made-- the difference is the your own wagon made those ruts, too! We just keep covering the same ground but we never get there. It's exhausting and overwhelming even to think about it.
I've been following your posts all day. From a women's perspective I can see similiarities between your W and me. However I work full time. My schedule is busy. I work in a demanding field, have 3 kids ages 6, 4, & 3, and go to school full time on line. I lost myself and the person that I was before all this responsibility. Some of your W's complaints are very similar to mine. I used to complain, moan, bitch, and wine about never having any time for anything. To make things worse my H works 2nd shift so by the time he get's home I have no energy left for sex. I lost myself and that was mostly my own fault. My H is tired of hearing it from me too. Not that he doesn't have faults but until I found this board and Michele's technigues, I kept doing more of the same. I have learned to not whine, moan, and complain. I am doing something different. I am taking responsibility for my own resentment and have recently gone to counselor to help me do this. It wasn't until my marriage had completely fell apart this summer (My H had and EA, possibly a PA with our children't nanny). If I was not depressed before I certainly am now. I finally realized I need help. I need someone to listen to me but it's not my H right now. He is depressed too and the entire sitch is bothersome to both of us. I bought the marriage break through tapes and they have helped me understand the differences in Men and Women. Have you or your W watched these? They enhance what Michele writes about in DR and DB. I've learned a lot in the past month and I think now that I have stopped nagging and complaining my H is starting to show more willingness to reconcile and his resentment seems to be dwindling a little. We have been married for 10 years. Michele says it takes one month (approx) for every year that there have been problems, to repair the damage. I am not 100% confident but if anything I feel better than I did a month ago. Depression eats away at you and I've finally realized that long term resentment is what makes you ill, mentally and physically. I say encourage the counseling for W if you think she is depressed. If she won't listen to you maybe she will listen to a friend.
It took some time for me to realize this. Once I did, I started to see the difference. Part of my resentments is from me not doing something different a long time ago. But like most of us, who I see have the same or similiar issues, we just assumed the marriage would take care of itself.
It's exhausting and overwhelming even to think about it.