... it does go to "how to handle situations," and I suspect there IS some relationship between my wife's LD/ND and the following behavior.
While on the one hand she can be very tough, demanding or even confrontational in SOME areas of her life, in so many other ways she acts totally powerless over even the simplest of situations, and totally overwhelmed by everyday circumstances. ESPECIALLY when they relate to her happiness or doing anything at all for herself.
She often says things like "Oh, I WISH I had time for that," or "I don't get to do fun things like that," or "I'm just tied to THIS HOUSE," etc. Within the past two weeks alone, it has gotten to ridiculous proportions, where she has -- very seriously -- said:
1) "I-I don't have TIME to even PUT that away!" (referring to some leftover homemade soup that she had made for dinner, which she had already put into a covered dish, and only needed to be PLACED INTO THE GARAGE REFRIGERATOR before leaving for an open house at our daughter's school). It took me literally 20 SECONDS to do it, and we left together on time;
2) "Well, THERE goes any chance I had of working out this week!" (when the hurricane and its associated power outages left our four children's school without power and closed for the week, so the kids -- DD17, DD15, DS11 and DS8 -- were at home all week.) When I questioned why, and pointed out that our daughters could babysit or my older son even stay home alone for an hour or two (we've started doing that recently), she got exasperated and just said "You don't understand!" She often points out things that are "impossible" to do, and when I point out how she might be able to do that, sometimes very easily, she just gets mad that I burst her pity party balloon;
3) After a "date nite" to the movies Saturday night, she wanted to go get some late dinner, but our sons were at grandma and grandpa's house and it was 9:30 and DS11 wanted to go home. I said, "too bad, he'll get over it -- let's go get something to eat," she got all flustered and announced "I can never do anything fun! Now we have to go home!" This turned into a MAJOR fight all evening, with me challenging her that "We're the adults, and we can do anything we choose to do, but we have to decide to do it," and she just once again announced that "As usual, I get NO understanding from you! All I wanted to do was go out and have a good time, but NOOOOOO, I don't 'get to to that!'"
I cannot STAND this "martyr complex" behavior, and it's so ironic because in EVERY other way, she is NOT a "feel-sorry-for-yourself" kind of person. She comes from a very "tough" family, and one where you don't call in sick or sit around pitying yourself. So what gives when it comes to her "fun time," and how can I call her on it or better handle these situations? I know she doesn't want me lecturing her on what she's doing wrong, but these are SO easily fixable!
Maybe it is sex-related. Maybe she's making a pre-emptive strike to stop you from suggesting that there is any possibility of improving your sex life. Afterall if she doesn't have time to do a single thing for herself, how can she possibly have time to think about your frivolous desire to get laid?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Please take this with a "grain of salt" I may be over sensitive to warning signs right now (read post from 9/11 @ 9:43 for details).
From simply what you just posted, I would venture to guess your wife suffers from some form of depression. I have learned alot about depression over the past 48 hours and I am in a hazey zone right now so if I am wrong forgive me.
My W displayed all the things your W is telling you. Took to long to put a dish int he refigerator because she didn't have time. Never had time to have any fun. Was mad at me for playing golf "for business reasons" when she didn't have time to have fun.
What most of us would consider common sense items where major issues for her that had no real solutions. She would go to pick up our son then drive over to get our daughter and pass not less then 6 stores along the way and call me to get her something from the store because she didn't have time. When in fact all she had to do was pick the kids up and bring them home and no other things needed done or where planned for the rest of the evening.
My W had to be everywhere not less then 45 minute early for fear she would be late. If the kids where at my parents house so we could go out, she spent most of the time worried about how my parents felt about babysitting instead of enjoying herself. I had almost the exact same "fight" with my W about getting dinner after a movie as you posted above.
If your W has not had previous depression issues, try to get her to discuss it with her Dr or a C. If she has a history this may be easier either way it will be a tough thing to bring up without her getting upset.
Quote: She would go to pick up our son then drive over to get our daughter and pass not less then 6 stores along the way and call me to get her something from the store because she didn't have time. When in fact all she had to do was pick the kids up and bring them home and no other things needed done or where planned for the rest of the evening.
This sounds EXACTLY like our household. We have two grocery stores and two drugstores five minutes from our house, and our credit union and a gas station ALL on her "school" commute every day, and yet I get calls to pick things up on my way home or have to go back out after dinner because she "didn't have time" to do this during her day.
Thanks for the advice; I'll look into this further.
Now that I followed and read the link you provided to your previous post, I REALLY remember reading that one, because it reminded me at the time so much of my own situation. I too get irritable and moody (or just plain sad) at times over our lack of a love life, and she turns it into MY problem -- "why are you so grouchy all the time?"
Well, duh, let's see . . .we've made love once in the last TWO YEARS, the house is a complete war zone mess, and I'm working my A$s off trying to support a family of six on one income. Ya think?
Choc., who sometimes thinks that HE is depressed...
I feel for you and hope that your situation is different as far as the depression aspect is concerned.
There was nothing I hated worse then to get the call asking me to pick something up when she had been out running around doing errands that day. The worst was when she NEEDED me yo pick up some resume paper because she ran out. I told her I would on my way home and she said thanks, it was no rush as she was waiting for a 3:00 movie to start that she and our daughter where going to watch. I looked at my watch and it was 1:30 AND the office depot was across the street from the theatre!!!!!!!!! When I got home she wanted to know why I was so grumpy?????
With the recent events, I feel bad for all the things I felt and thought at the time, but believe me I know what you are going through.
Hang in there, if it is depression she needs you to be strong. If it is something else much smaller, you need to still be strong.
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DazednadConfuzed - looking for that magic wand....no MOJO not that one!
Your W sounds like me. I've been there!!! I was just about to deal with just this kind of thing in a new thread, but I'd address this here first.
And yes, for me anyway, it has everything to do with sex.
I'm a mother of 4 - I had 4 in 5yrs. no's 3+4(twins) were a surprise. It was the first time H + I had ML in 3yrs (and the last time we have...). In a way, I was glad they were twins, because that experience was so amazing in a wonderful way that it overshadowed any qualms I had.
I guess I was like that already with the girls - I can here myself saying all of the things your wife said. I was overwhelmed with reponsibility, and had no kind of emotional support. I wasn't capable of seeing what i sounded like. I thought it would be obvious to H that I was in over my head, and needed a strong person to step in and help me out, but I'm sure that like you, all he saw was a whining martyr.
I would have given anything for H to firmly take me by the shoulders and tell me to take some time for myself. Or better yet, to treat me like a woman, like an adult. To make love to me, hard and strong. I guess I needed a lifeline.
I'm slowly realizing that I can't expect anyone to understand that if I don't tell them. But under all that stress, I couldn't see that.
Being a full time mom is a very overwhelming job. It may seem on the outside that it's 'just' play, and even to the women doing it can seem rather mundane at times.
But often, you don't get a chance to finish a thought before you run off to the next fight, or hurt. You run around tending to others needs, at the same time trying to keep yourself strong, so that by the end of the day, you tend to forget who you are anymore. It's sometimes hard to seperate your own needs from the needs of the kids.
I really needed to wallow in my self-pity at times, and I would have loved to just have H listen without offering solutions. Sometimes I just needed to sound like a demanding child, to get it out of my system. If H could have laughted 'at' me, in a loving, can you hear yourself kind of way, I think I could have joined in.
Realize, please, that your W is making an invaluable contribution to your family. I would say it's because she's from such a strong family that she feels this way - she is struggling with feeling overwhelmed, and not wanting to feel that way.
I wish I could better tell you how to help her, but try to realize, to her, these things are not easily fixable. Maybe at some point when she is calm, ask her what she needs. No demands from you, just support and understanding. Does she have other women, mother friends? Sometimes talking with others in the same sitch can help a lot.
Choc, I with the others betting that she's overwhelmed and this is a cry for help around the house. My W is a stay at home mom, and I work from home so I see what she goes through. It is truely the most thankless job one can imagine. No task is ever done (if it is, it needs to be done again shortly anyway), the work is rarely appreciated, often times it is undone by the rugrats before anyone who could appreciate it even gets a chance to see it. It isn't a paid job, so there is no tangible reward for the effort, and it is a round the clock job, no going home at the end of the shift. Worse yet, the 'working' moms who go off during the day to mini-vacations from the family each day and earn a paycheck tend to think stay at home moms have abundant free time so they should be the ones to do the school room mothers, PTA, cub scouts and so on. W has on several occasions been told by a 'working' mom things like, no they couldn't send a liter of apple juice in to school for the party, they are "way too busy, one of you stay at home moms should do it" (where do they think the money comes from anyway?). Sorry 'bout the rant.
It helps tremendously if they have another adult to talk to. If she isn't already, encourage her to join a neighborhood mother's group. You can check with your church, or there is usually some sort of Newcomers club in town. Ask around, I'm sure if she knows any other stay at home moms someone knows of something.
More importantly, take some of the load off her. Your job is probably only 8 hours. Give her some time off in the evenings by putting the kids to bed, checking the homework etc. Remember, hers is a thankless job; Tell her frequently how wonderful she is and what an excellent job she is doing and how it makes you feel so good to have a wonderful wife willing to do this for you and your children. Being a stay at home mom is probably the greatest thing you can do for your kids, but it is also probably the hardest job there is, especially in today's world where most of your neighbors are not, and there is no thanks at least until the kids have grown up and realize what a great gift you have given them by being a stay at home mom. Another possibility is have her sign up for a fun class with your local continuing ed. My W goes to a quilting class one evening a week for about 6 weeks a couple times a year...mostly a way for her to get away from the job now and again.
--GGB who is realizing he doesn't do enough to support his SAHW, but is trying.
Boy, are you guys WAY off. I should explain further:
First off, my job is a 10-hour a day, very high-pressure, high-pay one that we are blessed to have. But it's far from an 8-hour day.
More importantly, I have ALWAYS been a big help-around-the-house guy, and do more than 90% of the guys I know in that regard. I'm also her biggest fan and biggest supporter of stay-at-home mom's in general, who I think have a very difficult and most important job in the world.
I DO think, however, that she is also overwhelmed, because she won't delegate ANY work to any of our kids. "It's easier to do it myself" and "I wish they'd just OFFER to do something to help me" are her ususal complaints, but our children are 17, 15, 11 and 8, and there's no reason why they can't be doing more around the house. We've had this same conversation/argument for at LEAST 10 years, and nothing ever changes. When they were little, saying "but we have four children!" was a valid excuse for being late to things and having a messy house, etc., but now that they are older, I think they should be a RESOURCE, not a HINDRANCE. Isn't this why farmers used to have large families -- for help around the farm?
So to sum up, she is surrounded by help both real (me) and potential (the kids), but won't actually ASK for any help. Rather, she'll complain into the ether with comments like "I can't do it all around here!" and "You know, there's only ONE of me!" rather than just asking one of the children "Can you take this pile of clothes upstairs and put it away in your dresser?" or saying "I expect your room to be picked up by tomorrow, otherwise you're not going out this weekend" -- and then sticking to it.
Man, we are a John Rosemond poster family for "What Not to Do." But it's NOT because I don't help or support her!
Choc, If she is not strong enough to get the kids in line (and boy do I agree that they should be pulling at least 50% of the workload around there), then can you step in and help with that?
Perhaps a chart listing what each kid is responsible for on a daily basis and with the idea that if it is not done, they are grounded from whatever they wanted to do that day. Dad is the one who will be checking things over every night and giving his approval or punishment.
In other words, if this is not her strong point then it is pointless to have that task assigned to her. She will continue to feel overwhelmed and will continue to not handle it properly.
Having said that, there are a LOT of women who really relish this martyr role. I have a sister as well as two sisters in law that do this. I have never understood it. I do believe that it is their way of carving out their 'niche' in life...they are needed because nothing gets done without them.
My BIL did something unusual with his wife. He basically told her, Take one evening per week to go and recharge yourself. You can do whatever you want during this time.
The stipulation is that this should cut down on her complaining time. She sometimes uses this time to grocery shop, etc, but he has told her "hey that is your decision, you won't get any sympathy from me if you use your time to do household stuff." So he fights her complaints with action.
I know many women will say that they just want empathy and someone to listen and validate them (I do too) but there comes a time when enough is enough. If validation is allowing that person to stay stuck and not take responsibility for their own happiness in life, then they may need a kick in the pants to get outta that rut.
Just some thoughts and good luck, Chocolate. I personally cannot stand whining unless there is a REALLY good reason for it (such as being nine months pregnant, LOLOL! See how I always ok it for myself...typical woman, eh!).
