Next level?

[Scott1701]

Corri,
((((big hug))))

I'm not brilliant in the relationship stuff like most everyone else here, so I'll jump in with something that NOP was hitting on.

I think I'm a bit like your H, at least in the emotional connection part. This is an area that completely befuddles me. I can explain to someone over the phone how their healthplan works and have them go from wanting to blow up our building to being happy, well almost, about the 10%+ rate increase that will hit them or walk them the process to set up COBRA for an employee. However I am still at the "pre-school" level when it comes to talking about emotions or talking to someone about them. Just this last month the W and I were the presenters for our monthly Encountering Couples meeting. I was so nervous about this that I was sweating a bit. Now I am a speech com major and do not freak at giving speeches, I also host a monthly Cable TV progam, so I am not at all bothered by speaking in front of people, but this time I was and it was the giving out my feelings and trying to make them understandable to others that freaked me out. It did go quite well and I got complements from the other group members. So what I am suggesting is finding a way to do "Emotions 101" with him. I got as part of the stuff we used at the marriage encounter and my counselor, basic emotion words and the feelings to connect them to. While I've moved from pre-school to kindergarten on this, things improved in the marriage in that, ok we're still not having sex at my level, but the emotional stress level is much better. I think the poor guy is probably just overwhelmed at trying to do a college level course on emotions with kindergarten level skills.

I hope this isn't too basic or completely out to lunch on what you need.

Scott
-Taking a shot at helping and thrilled to be able to put the car in the garage for the upcoming winter as we found a place to store the camper.

[Corri]

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. Mo, as always, you da woman.

Scott: are you saying that your wife took it upon herself to get you signed up for Emotions 101, is making sure you complete the course, and is making you make sense of those emotions?

Who decided for the man that can talk about and explain just about anything under the sun, except his emotions, that it was worth the risk to attempt it? Who then did it?

Corri

[InherJourney]

Corri,
My personal feeling is that you need a break from the "differentiating." You have done a tremendous amount of work and your strength and confidence comes through.

But it's time to take a rest.

Let go of the issues of the marriage for a bit. Take care of yourself, and see if you can get to a place where you can just relax in the company of your H. He is not a perfect person, but is not the enemy.

In my earlier post, I was trying to suggest that not every issue can be differentiated upon. This is just my opinion. I personally feel that loving verbal expression from men is particularly difficult. Again, this is just from my own experience. I want my H to say ILY while ML...he just can't do it. But he gives great cards on all the holidays, and I keep one in my bag that has a particularly nice sentiment.

I don't think I am being anti-PM when I say that we all have limits to our differentiation. The rest is made up of love and compassion, gifts that you should give to yourself today.

IHJ

[Scott1701]

Corri,
Actually it took a crisis to get me signed up for it and I'm still working on it. I'm the one working on it and going by her reactions to what I'm doing. I know that at least in that area the tension level of the marriage is way down.

I've had to work hard on the emotion part and just have to feel my way through. As far as finding out whether it's worth, it beats feeling emotionally dead or cut off from others.

Scott
-Who should have know he was out of his depth.

[honeypot]

Corri:
I agree with the others. Take the focus off H and focus on you for a while. You can't change him or force him to step up to the plate by the sheer force of your will (and we all know how willful you are, lol) so why bother? You can state your needs and then hope that he is willing to start trying to meet them. I think that he might make more of an attempt if he had a game plan.
Right now, I am imagining him so overwhelmed with what is being asked of him that he doesn't know where to start. It may all sound vague and bizarre to him.

Have you ever outlined it, for yourself, exactly what you are wanting from him? Do you know clearly what it is that would draw you to him?

I discovered with my H that making a list of what I wanted was very helpful to him but ONLY if that list started at a basic level, as Scott was so wisely saying. That is, he didn't want to know where I wanted him to end up--he wanted to know where to start. What was the MINIMUM I would be happy with. Anything else was too much.

This is not him holding out on me; it is human nature. When any of us are making huge changes in how we interact with someone as important to us as our mate, we tend to shut down if we feel we can't fully live up to their ideals. After all, this is the person with which we have the most to lose.

So how about it...what is your list of wants from your H, on the most basic level?

Are there things on the list that he is already accomplishing? That would help in boosting his confidence and make him feel that this is a do-able goal.

Gotta run; hope your day gets better. We've all been to that dark place and it aint no fun 'tall.

xo

[Corri]

I've had to work hard on the emotion part and just have to feel my way through. As far as finding out whether it's worth, it beats feeling emotionally dead or cut off from others.

I realize that, Scott, but I think you missed my point. YOU took the initiative, your wife did not do it for you. If she does not or cannot appreciate your efforts and attempts, at the very least, then she is the worst kind of schmuck.

Your original point to me was to say how hard it is for men to express their emotions, and you said that you thought you were a bit like my H, at least in the emotional connection part, as it is an area that completely befuddles you.

My point to you: But you know it, and you are trying to do something about it.

It was a left-handed compliment to be sure... but I'd say you are ahead of the curve where my H is concerned.

Corri

[Corri]

Honey:

So how about it...what is your list of wants from your H, on the most basic level?

The Key to Corri's Heart, that is every bit as important to her as H's need for sex: "Look me in the eye and say, Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. I'd like to ML to you."

That's it. That's my list. It seems pretty simple to me... I'm not sure how I can make it any more simple. I just want to be included.

Corri

[NOPkins]

Corri said:
------------------
I don't want to try, yet again, as you suggested NOP, and place my ONE need in front of his face. I don't care if I have sex, and I don't care if I don't. I don't want to read another frickin' manual.
------------------

Corri.

I am glad I didn't give up on my wife. I came close, but I am very glad I didn't and that she didn't give up on me.

This morning, she sent me an email. Contained therein was a short list of things that she has been wanting from me. she has made it pretty plain previously, but (huge sigh) I missed them. So, she had to send me a concrete reminder. I am trying really hard, and I recognize the items, but I still let them slip... There was no malice, they just didn't make it to my list.

To be perfectly honest, in some ways, they make me feel stupid because the simple list is so far beyond by normal personality, that they become difficult. Much like a LD spouse and sex.

My lovely wife is working on the hard parts for her. I will work on the hard parts for me. This is why relationship work is hard work, but absolutely necessary.

From what you have written, your husband loves you. He is probably a smart guy, but he is like anyone else in a relationship, and that is partially blind to the other spouses needs.

I hope that he can come to a point of wanting to directly address issues in your marriage. Until then, YOU will have to push.

If you get to the point where you can't push anymore, then reserve at least a bit of yourself before you give up, enough to tell him WHY you are giving up. He deserves at least that much.

Here is a big hug from me;
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CORRI}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

And a slap on the a$$, now get your butt back in there!

-NOPkins-

[honeypot]

Corri,
Let me ask you this:

Do you believe that, in every relationship, there is one person who is the caretaker of the R? I do.

I used to believe that it was the woman typically, but I have changed that tune since coming to this board.

I don't necessarily think that is such a bad thing. I wish it weren't so, boy, do I wish that. If my H showed half the enthusiasm and dedication to the preservation of this R as I do, I think we'd be on a whole different realm right now.
But...he doesn't. I do it for both of us. Sometimes I force him to be more involved using humor, sometimes it is my anger, sometimes it is logic that gets him to move his arse.
This used to really bother me until I realized that we tend to differentiate our roles in this marriage in all kinds of ways. In some areas, he is the caretaker; others I am. We each have strengths and weaknesses and we (usually and supposedly) employ these in ways that best serve the marital setup.

Is there a way that you can reconcile the fact that you are the caretaker without it becoming the wedge that drives you away from him?

One final question: What are some ACTIONS that your H could do to show you that he is committed?

I think, as women, we sometimes focus too much on emotions and feelings and want those expressed. My husband operates on a purely action-based format. If I gave him the choice right now between articulating his feelings for me and doing an action to 'prove' to me how much he loves me, you can guess which he'd choose.

So when you tell him what you need, are you including enough actions? Such as: "I want a half hour every day together where we talk and share a cup of coffee." It would be his job to make the coffee while you talk. I know this sounds simplistic and ridiculous, but when I tried to nail my H down into sitting on the couch with me at the end of every day for FIFTEEN FRICKIN MINUTES, it was a collossal failure. I wish now that I had chosen a more active and basic level thing to do together. The sit-down-and-connect-emotionally with me activity was horrible for him and, therefore, me.

I have spent a lot of time being resentful of this until it occurred to me one day that he doesn't operate like this with ANYONE. (well maybe in church, but I won't go there cause I am trying to stay positive and resentment-free )

So there is a need when dealing with our spouse to take into consideration what kind of person they are and come to a middle ground where he can be himself, while meeting my needs and I can have my needs met without feeling like I am giving up my integrity.

Good luck..this will take some sorting through but you are UP TO IT.

[Corri]

Honey... NOP (thank you... ) anyone else:

Is there a way that you can reconcile the fact that you are the caretaker without it becoming the wedge that drives you away from him?

I'm sure I can, when I am done with my Pity Party. Right now, no.

One final question: What are some ACTIONS that your H could do to show you that he is committed?

I thought I answered this. Okay, I feel really stupid silly... I thought this was pretty clear? But my answer, again, to your question is: "Look me in the eye and say, Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. I'd like to ML to you."

Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. Will you come with me and the boys to hockey practice?

Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. Will you sit outside with me while I wash the car?

Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. YOU mean so much to me.

I love you is fine... but jeese, it just becomes so trite, so banal, cause we say it all the time.

I want to HEAR from HIS MOUTH that **I** am important to him, ALL IN THE SAME SENTENCE...and for that tiny little bit I will walk to the friggin end of the earth with him.

Is this really not clear?

Corri