Quote: For me to respond to: "You need to do me," in a sexual way is, for me, emotional mercy sex from him. That line does NOTHING to fuel my love tank or my physical desire. When I initiate sex with my H, I do the things I know he likes so he will respond to me. I do this because I have taken the time to know him. If I just lay there and say, 'you can have sex with me now,' he finds that disgusting. He'd rather just not do it... if I'm not 'into' it, what's the point?
With your explaination of the gardening to give versus gardening to get it is much more clear. Thank you.
Hi Corri, My feeling is that now that you are on the next level, once again you have to be the leader. If you want H to be more vulnerable, you are going to have to show him the way. But it's a little different than setting limits and expressing your needs. On this level, the "differention task" is to push yourself to show your level of emotion for him. IOW, you are waiting for him to make you "emotionally inspired" but he is still a step behind you. I think you should tap into yourself to see what you can express to him. The next time he asks for a quickie, try not to "allow" that to derail you. Look him in the eyes and tell him you miss him and love him and would like to ML. What I am trying to say is the next time you want vulnerability from him, make yourself vulnerable. Show him what it is you are looking for, and you may find yourself growing and stretching a la PM/differentiation.
Quote: On the other hand, if he opens himself up and tells you he loves you and lets you see just how important your desire is to him and you still reject him, he would be devastated.
You mean in the same way it would devastate someone to turn themselves inside out, give all they had to give for a year, ask and ask and ask and ask and ask for help and encouragement to keep it going and not get it because it's 'too hard' and then have that same person look you in the eye and tell you that your best just isn't good enough? Yeah, I can imagine just how much that would hurt.
What you've described above is called 'fear of rejection' and in with that, is 'fear of abandonment.' It's what our shrink told my H leads him to self-sabbotage, and you are right, it is a very scary thing to have to face within yourself. Unfortunately, I CAN'T FIX IT FOR HIM, and my H has known for years what the name of his demons are.
I understand all of the suggestions you are trying to make, but I am NOT a masochist. If my H cannot do what he needs to do to meet me half-way, I cannot do a single thing about it. I think it is lovely that you all somehow seem to think that I can...
I guess what I am trying to say is that I have learned that giving my H all the sex he could want does NOT solve our problem. It allows him to avoid his problem because I am doing all the work. He's now got himself so busy, and so stressed and so tired that he has the PERFECT excuse not to work on us. We only have limited time with one another... so let's have sex!! And while I agree that sex is a wonderful way to connect, both people have to be present emotionally in order for that to occur.
IHJ, I understand, too, what you are saying, but we aren't even CLOSE to the next level.
Quote: If you want H to be more vulnerable, you are going to have to show him the way.
I'm sorry, but you have to be fcuking kidding me. Are you all listening to what you are asking of me?! I get to fix me, have as much sex as I can AND teach my H how to be emotionally vulnerable by SHOWING him the way?! So after I'm lying on the floor, sexually exhausted with my heart laid bare to him, what THEN do I have to do, have to give, when he says that all was great, but it just isn't enough and I'm so sorry I can't help you any more with this... you see, I fear making myself vulnerable, and I just really don't have the time. I'm not sure if I'm going to be home for dinner... I can give you access to my calendar if you wish... see you later.
Are you really saying that? If so, jesus... no wonder. Cause from where I am sitting, I'm thinking, honey, ya seem to have a problem, and if you want the problem to GO AWAY, then you are going to have to FIX it. While I will support you in your pursuit of solving that problem, I can't doing it for you. It is HIS choice.
I hear what you're saying Corri. I guess it always sux to be the "fixer". I was just trying to get into your H's head from an HD perspective. Obviously you already know what I was trying to tell you.
Quote: If my H cannot do what he needs to do to meet me half-way, I cannot do a single thing about it. I think it is lovely that you all somehow seem to think that I can...
We are a lovely bunch of coconuts, aren't we ? I am in complete empathy with you. If you think that your H has a clear idea of what exactly you expect from him because you have revealed all there is to reveal then I would say that you and I have basically found ourselves in the same place in the process. You might as well relax because there isn't much else you can do. If you truly meant it when you said that you "cannot do a single thing about it" then your job is done. There is nothing left for you to "fix".
Right now all I can do is pick up the phone and listen supportively to the sound of dropped hammers and gnashing gears as my H tries to "fix" himself. My H will be a better H and a better man if he is able to "fix" his tendency to let anxiety inhibit his sex drive. Your H will be a better H and a better man if he is able to 'fix" his tendency to let fear inhibit his ability to experience intimacy. I'm sorry if I suggested that it is your responsibility to reduce the fear that your H experiences. I'm sure that this would be as impossible for you to do as trying to reduce my H's anxiety directly has been for me.
For some reason, I always find dog analogies work really well when talking about husbands. In one of my dog training manuals, the expert said that you should never try to comfort your dog when it shows fear in a situation that shouldn't be frightening. By comforting the dog, you are giving it the message that there is something to fear but you will protect it. If instead you just proceed as though the dog is behaving in a ridiculous fashion and make clear your expectations regarding the dog's behavior in such a situation, the dog will soon get over it's fear and behave in the manner you expect in order to please you. Of course many dogs exhibit fear by becoming aggressive, so you have to be brave in the face of this behavior also.
I guess what I'm saying is that maybe you and I have read all the dog training manuals in the library and we know just what we should do, but we still have to have a bit of patience while our dogs go through the learning curve. There is a tendency to want to give up and just tell yourself that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you're showing a lack of faith in yourself as well as your H if that's your attitude.
I know that it seems like I am contradicting myself by saying that there is nothing left for us to "fix" and at the same time casting us in the role of dog trainers, but the way to get around this contradiction is by stating that I think the thing that we needed to "fix" was the fact that we were two of the worst dog handlers in town. Now that we have graduated Magna "Cum" Laude from the SSM/PM school of dog training and have confidence in our abilities, we have to have faith that even if our dogs sometimes seem like a couple of bad-tempered, woebegotten mutts, we can still count on a future with a pleasant slipper-fetching jogging companion who (in your case) wags his tail and licks your face when you come in the door or (in my case) is a star performer in the stud field.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
God love your blessed heart, girl. I don't know if you meant it, but a light bulb may have just popped on for me.
I think we are at the same point. That dog analogy is brilliant. The fact that I am tempted to try and comfort him or cave, or try something that I haven't possibly considered yet, is very telling to me and what I have to work on. When really, the only thing I can do is remain consistent in the face of his fear.
And perhaps my biggest fear of all is that he doesn't have it in him to step up to the plate... and if I could do it for him, then I don't have to face that fear.
Oh fcuk. What a tremendous pain in the azz to realize that, and yet again, what a tremendous relief. I'm sitting here crying my silly little butt off because that analogy is so dam perfect and so darn accurate...
And on top of all that, jesus, I felt heard. Wow, I didn't realize how deep this went with me.... thank you so much, Mo. I'll have a good cry and then go find my bat, I guess. But the bat isn't for him... it's for me.
I think that you do still have work to do in the training department.
As you well know, Guys do things differently. One of the hardest things for a guy to do is several things at once.
Likely, your husband has a plate full of things that he feels like he needs to fix. relationship work is already hard enough for most guys as is. He is probably thinking "what the hell do I do with all this stuff?'
So, let's make it simple for him, especially now that he has a good excuse to pull out whenever he needs it (work). This is also likely the reason he took the new position.
So, take out an index card. On one side write "The Key To Corri's Heart". On the other side, write something like; "In order to open Corri's heart, please place the following need (or need's - but no more than TWO) at equal importance to (hubby's name) need for sex."
Put the card in a prominent place in his briefcase or some other place where he will see it.
The card is just an idea. What is important is that you place ONE thing on his plate to deal with, not many. If it is a complex need, present it simply, and let him expand it as he works on it.
Keep the need in front of him so that he can't ignore it. Expect fallout....
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I think the reason that I keep making the dog/husband analogy is that I was thinking about this movie that I saw when I was a girl. It's called "If a Man Answers" and it stars Sandra Dee. The plot is that a young recently married woman is having trouble with her husband. She asks her mother who is a sophisticated French woman for advice and her mother gives her a dog training manual. The training goes very well until her husband discovers that he is being trained. I forget what happens after that so I think I'll rent a copy and report back after I've watched it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Everytime I come here, I feel like burying my face in my hands and crying. I think I might be depressed. I feel so utterly helpless and hopeless in regard to my H that I am truly disgusted with myself.
I don't want to try, yet again, as you suggested NOP, and place my ONE need in front of his face. I don't care if I have sex, and I don't care if I don't. I don't want to read another frickin' manual.
I want to curl up in a ball and cry, and then vomit, then start all over again.
My H curled up next to me in bed last night and whispered in my ear "are you awake?" I just layed there. No coherent thought came to my head. I wasn't pissed, I wasn't sad. I wasn't happy, I wasn't horny. I was numb.
I think I've collasped under the weight of carrying the backpack by myself, and that is as much my fault as it is his... probably more.
I'm just oozing self-pity today, aren't I? Darned if I can't seem to help myself. I just don't know what to do with myself, and I can't muster up enough sh!t to give it. This is quite disturbing, and I thought I'd better say something here in case this lasts beyond a few days...
Wish I had some constructive advice, but I sure don't. Have had that numb feeling alot myself the past 15 yrs. You are one strong lady, you will figure it out with the help of friends.
Quote: think I've collasped under the weight of carrying the backpack by myself, and that is as much my fault as it is his... probably more.
You know what? I don't think you need to have him pick up the backpack right now in order to put it down for a minute yourself. Take a break. Find a stream to sit by and daydream or identify some wildflowers or feed some crumbs from your sandwich to a chipmunk exchange pleasantries with some other hikers. I don't think your H will hike too long by himself before he comes back to see what you're up to. Maybe he'll realize that it would be a good idea to take a few pounds off your pack and add them to his if your going to attempt to hike any further together.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
? I am in complete empathy with you. If you think that your H has a clear idea of what exactly you expect from him because you have revealed all there is to reveal then I would say that you and I have basically found ourselves in the same place in the process. You might as well relax because there isn't much else you can do. If you truly meant it when you said that you "cannot do a single thing about it" then your job is done. There is nothing left for you to "fix". 
In one of my dog training manuals, the expert said that you should never try to comfort your dog when it shows fear in a situation that shouldn't be frightening. By comforting the dog, you are giving it the message that there is something to fear but you will protect it. If instead you just proceed as though the dog is behaving in a ridiculous fashion and make clear your expectations regarding the dog's behavior in such a situation, the dog will soon get over it's fear and behave in the manner you expect in order to please you. Of course many dogs exhibit fear by becoming aggressive, so you have to be brave in the face of this behavior also.