Hey, all, I could really use some input. You all know it is far easier to see what other people are doing in a situation than it is to see what you are doing in your own... so step right up and bust my chops, please.
Okay. For a year or so, H and I increased our sexual frequency, and at the one year point, I looked back at my calendar to see that we had done it 67 times, not including the BJs for him. I brought this up to him and was rather shocked when he got all surly with me and said that that wasn't nearly enough. Took the wind out of my sails, I'll tell you. We had a discussion and I asked him to try and be more encouraging with me, to self-disclose to me more, because if I wasn't feeling physcially inspired to ML, then he could take steps to emotionally inspire me.
Welp, that fell flat. He said, "do you know how hard that is for me?!" Shock, yet again. "Do I know how hard that is? Do you mean do I know how hard it is to look inside yourself and find the courage to face your own fears, doubts and insecurities and stretch yourself? Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do know how hard that is."
So, I take some time and let this soak in. Something isn't right in Dodge, I know that, but it hasn't hit me yet, so I continue to muddle along.
I ask him to buy some books that I'd like him to read. He finally bought them and read one. (He got two, and I gave him PM). I really, really wanted him to read PM, but I didn't push it. It had to be his choice. We do eyes open Os, hugging til relaxed... he can do all of it... but something isn't feeling right. But I don't know what it is.
For his birthday in May, I gave him a sex coupon book. In addition to the other stuff, one said "one night I do you," and the other said, "one night you do me." He asked me what those to meant. I said, if you read PM you will know exactly what they mean, but I'm not going to do them until you find out for yourself." He said, "Okay, what page is it on?" I said, "you are going to have to find it yourself."
He still has those two coupons.
I finally figured out what had been eating at me, and I told him, "I'm not keeping count anymore. If I want to have sex, I'll have sex. If I don't, I'm not going to." This bugged him very much. When he asked me why, I told him it was because I am tired of being the "keeper" of the relationship. I had needs of my own that were not being met, and 'frequency' was not solving our issues. (It definitely helped, but it wasn't solving the problem.) He asked me what I meant.
I said, honey, if our relationship fell back into what it was, I can look you in the eye and say to you that I know exactly what I would need to do in order to get it back on track. You cannot do the same. You'd let it wither away into a divorce unless I stepped up to 'fix' it. In order to completely fix our issues, you have got to step up to the plate. I feel like I am playing a game of tennis by myself. I cannot and will not do it for you anymore.
He protested to this, of course, but I stood my ground. So he asked me for an example of what I meant by being 'emotinally inspired" to have sex. I said, "I would love it if you looked into my eyes and said to me, honey, I miss you and I'd like to be close to you. I want to ML to you."
He can say the "I want to ML to you" part, no problem. To include me in that sentence is virtually impossible for him to do. What I've figured out is, it is terrifying for my H to feel emotionally vulnerable. He has an unbelievable hard time telling me how he feels about me, how important I am to him. He uses ML to say all of this, but even during ML, he cannot expose or express the deepest parts of himself. I am held at arm's length, emotionally.
I don't hold this against him. I know how incredibly hard it is for him. The end of his first marriage nearly destroyed him and I don't think he ever planned on trusting or loving anyone like that ever again.
Now he has yet another promotion from work... he's VP over two divisions now and his stress level is WAYYYYY up there. When he gets home, he's mentally wiped out, and now we're back to him saying "how 'bout a quickie," or "how 'bout a BJ?" He doesn't have the time or the energy for anything else.
Now for the point of all of this... last night, we're laying in bed and he says to me, 'let's get our lovemaking back on track.' I say, okay, somewhat hopefully. And then he says to me, 'so, can we do a quickie?"
"No, I really don't want a quickie, but thanks."
I want more. I want it all. The good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly... not an emotional wall that makes sex, for me, routine and keeps it at the physical level. Do I have to have this all the time? Heck no... but...
The stuff that NOP talks about with he and his wife. You get there by communicating and being honest and listening to one another. My H says to me that he is busy, and tired and stressed and there is so little time... and I say, yeah, I know. NOP has time because he made time. He made some choices.
Do I begrudge my H his choices? No... of course I want him to do what he thinks he needs to do. They are HIS choices. But I do have to say, sexual frequency is great... but it doesn't get you to the next level... where it would never occur to either one of you to count how many times you did it in a week. On the next level, it doesn't matter...
Does anyone understand this? And what the hell do I say that I haven't said before, over and over and over again?
I understand!!!!!!!!! I really do, and wish I could give some advice. Seems to me your H doesn't understand. From what you just said, it seems to me your H has some problems with trust and hasn't given that to you.
Does he understand that you have made some BIG changes in yourself to become closser to him and make your intimate life with him better? It seems to me you are doing all the work here. Does he realise he has to do some of the work? I agree with you, he has to make the time, put aside the stresses.
Annette who feels she can't really give advice when she can't seem to communicate with H
Quote: I said, "I would love it if you looked into my eyes and said to me, honey, I miss you and I'd like to be close to you. I want to ML to you."
I can relate to what your saying. I had the problem you're describing along with the LD problem with my H. In fact, I would say the two were related in that my H needed EC in order to have sex with me, but he was the one who was slacking on the EC too. I guess this is why I felt like it was necessary for him to openly declare his attachment to me before I could trust him to continue working on the sex.
I think you need to do what I did when I confronted my H about his inability to tell me that he was "in love" with me. Just treat this problem your H has about being LD in terms of expressing his love openly, the same way a sexually HD person would treat the sex problem. The only thing I would suggest is that maybe you shouldn't mix it up with the sex problem. Don't let your H's lame inability to express his emotions interfere with your progress in enjoying sex. Remember the Mojo motto and to put it very crudely- Don't punish your p*ssy for what he's doing to your heart/head. I believe that you are 100% capable of enjoying sex even with a man who is behaving like a total jerk.
You definitely should take a strong stand on getting what you want from your relationship in terms of expressions of love AND sex. The next time your H suggests that maybe there is only time for a BJ, why don't you say "Yeah. I'm sure that there is only time for one of us to have an orgasm, but I'm thinking it better be me.". The next time he expresses his difficulty at openly expressing his love, start imagining your alternate future in which you are having sex with a guy named Hank who can't stop mumuring over and over "You are so beautiful. I love you so much. I am filled with joy when I ML with you." or something less smhmaltzy but along those lines. You know what you need to be happy in your relationship and you know that you don't need infinite declarations of love anymore than I need infinite declarations of lust, but you know you have to take a tough stand in taking responsibility for your own happiness in this regard.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hey, Babe How you doin'...on stuff other than the R with your H that is? Kids are back in school for me.....(happy, happy dance, singing "It's the most wonderful time of the year!")
Got an idea or two on your situation. You wanna hear it? Ya ready?
I think your husband is caught up with what a lot of men think is what it takes to make a great relationship and that is work and money. I know all lot of me that think all they need to do is go to work and bring a big paycheck home and the W will be happy. We all know that isn't what it takes in a R. I think you need to let your H know that you need some of his time. Just because work is stressful is not a reason for him to ignore you, or not meet your needs. I would tell him as bluntly as possible on this. Because us men are kind of hard headed in this regard.
The real root of the problem is that he does not value your needs as much as his own. Period. Call it a respect issue. I AM GUILTY of this myself. It took me a long time to realize it. Just ask Mrs. NOP.
In order for him to meet you where you need to be met, he has to realize that "going all the way to the toes" (see HoneyPot's thread) is his job. That means that talking to you, or whatever need is not being met (looks like simple appreciation and acknowledgment to me) IS AS IMPORTANT AS HIS NEED FOR SEX. I will bet you that he simply can't believe that this is true.
It may take a bat to get his attention, but you have to tell him, even if you have to make a sign and hang it over your bed.
Let me know what you think. -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I understand perfectly. I'm not sure what I can suggest that you haven't thought of already.
You could try to schedule time with him. Will he go for 10 minutes of one-on-one time with you everyday, with no distractions such as TV or kids. H and I do this right now, and while he sometimes gets pissed that I might use this time to either initiate a relationship conversation or sex, he has been very good about it. Occassionally, he will come to bed with a pissy attitude and literally look at the clock, but I let that go.
In the beginning, you may have to direct the conversation into areas that he is not comfortable with, but maybe the scheduled approach is worth a try.
I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't understand exactly what you're saying. You certainly didn't come across as LD or MD. That was a HD post! And it made you the most f*ckable I've ever seen (read) you!
Mike - changing his name to Hank just so I can imagine all the W thinking about doing me (I know, I know...but it's MY fantasy! Don't mess it up!)
I wish I had some wonderful words of wisdom to impart...Sounds as if up till now, you've been doing enough differentiating to get things going, but he has yet to do his part.
---------------------- MM wrote:
Quote: I think you need to do what I did when I confronted my H about his inability to tell me that he was "in love" with me. Just treat this problem your H has about being LD in terms of expressing his love openly, the same way a sexually HD person would treat the sex problem. The only thing I would suggest is that maybe you shouldn't mix it up with the sex problem. Don't let your H's lame inability to express his emotions interfere with your progress in enjoying sex. Remember the Mojo motto and to put it very crudely- Don't punish your p*ssy for what he's doing to your heart/head. I believe that you are 100% capable of enjoying sex even with a man who is behaving like a total jerk.
Hmm, for all my flaunting myself as an HDW, part of the reason I haven't been pushing for sex more, is that I'm not sure I can do that. It feels to me a little like selling out, or faking it. Guess that's something I need to get over...
Quote: Hmm, for all my flaunting myself as an HDW, part of the reason I haven't been pushing for sex more, is that I'm not sure I can do that. It feels to me a little like selling out, or faking it. Guess that's something I need to get over...
Maybe I should qualify what I said by indicating that I didn't mean that anyone could enjoy having sex with a man who was being a jerk sexually. I just meant that it's possible to enjoy having sex with a guy even if you're in the middle of an acrimonious fight. I didn't mean it was possible to enjoy having sex with a guy who is sexually selfish or boorish. Aggressive feelings can be incorporated into a sexual event but nobody wants to feel humiliated during sex (okay some people do but that isn't what I'm talking about).
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
