So this is piecing...

[2Timothy_2_23]

I think a common box addressed to BP intended to collect all business related material is a good compromise. That way if either of you get business related material, it can go in the box.

This way H isn't out of the loop - no secrets or suprises - but he also doesn't have to take responsiblity for sending stuff/taking active involvement in the business. If he really wants to, he can look in the box to see what is there, but he can also symbolically "dump" stuff into the box, and have you help him "dispose" of it (by mailing it to BP, not shredding - don't want you to get carried away now ).

LG, packing material of shredded cards, love notes, etc., I hadn't thought of that - but I've got to say, that would have been a classic. Years from now, when you tell this story, I'd say you did it that way. Adds another level of flavor to the story.

plk

[trustinginHim]

Thanks plk, I believe that is a great compromise! Amazingly though, since I took the liberty of forwarding all the mail for the business that came to our home address, wayward business mail has not appeared here for almost three weeks...imagine that!!! And, as a great side benefit, BMOW has not sent my H an email of any kind for almost a month now. So for the time being, I have nothing to forward to her and she apparently has nothing to say to my H. I LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

I hope everyone had an enjoyable Thanksgiving. I used the holiday to perform some more 180's for my H and he loved them!

Wednesday night, H's middle brother and W showed up for the start of the holiday. I had ready and waiting for them upon arrival a hot meal meeting their dietary guidelines that I had prepared myself with a fully set table complete with the good china, crystal and silverware. My H opened a nice bottle of wine and we had a great evening. For comparison's sake, the old me was a poor cook, poor entertainer and extremely poor hostess. Not anymore! When H and I went to bed later after tucking our guests in, he just gushed with compliments for me. He said I was becoming everything he had ever wanted in a W and he loved everything I had done. Then he held and caressed me until I fell asleep.

We all got up bright and early Thanksgiving morning and drove about 4 hours away to meet the rest of H's family for the holiday. H's aunt had reserved a very, very, very nice room in a lovely hotel as a combined birthday present for me and H. Our b-days are next month. She also bought the entire family a delicious Thanksgiving meal together in an expensive restaurant. Yeah, she's got the bucks. When we prayed about our thankfulness over the meal before we ate, my H pleasantly surprised me by grabbing and squeezing my hand. That was a big 180 for him!

We spent Thanksgiving afternoon together as a family and leisurely shopped. Then we all caught a movie together and wandered into another restaurant for dinner. It turned out to be a most excellent day. My H and I were exhausted and in the room asleep by 9:30 pm, which unfortunately caused us to miss out on some private hottub time that had also been reserved for us that evening under the full moon on the hotel roof by SIL. We told her that we were too tired to go, so she and her H went in our place. All was not lost!

Friday morning, the family appeared bright and early and we all went to breakfast, then shopped for a few more hours together before heading our separate ways for home. My H told me that he wanted to take me on a different, but more scenic route for our return trip home. He told me that he had taken this same route home last year for the first time, very lonely and missing me terribly and wondering if/when he would ever get to share the beautiful drive with me. Little did he expect that it would only be a year later!

LG--praising her most wonderful and precious Lord for all things, most especially ADs

[trustinginHim]

Heard an interesting marriage sermon this morning (see ** below for credit). It was about the crazy cycle of unlove and disrespect that can develop between a H and his W. According to scripture, the Lord calls for the H to love his W, but for the W to respect her H. Now I am not saying that wives don't like to be respected, nor am I saying that husbands don't like to be loved, but instead and according to scripture, love is primary for wives and respect is primary for husbands. I hope that makes sense.

Imagine a circle and at the 12 o'clock position it says "Without love". At the 3 position it says "She reacts". At the 6 position it says "Without respect" and at the 9 position it says "He reacts."

Starting at the 12 position for example's sake (the cycle can start at any point on the circle) and traveling clockwise, if the W perceives or believes that she is not receiving or is without love from her H, following the circle, she will react to that and will respond to her H with little or no respect. When the H feels/perceives that he is getting little or no respect from his W, he then reacts and responds without love for his W. The cycle simply continues until the H or W makes a conscious effort to break it.

Are you experiencing this crazy cycle in YOUR marriage or R? I know I have been and still am to an extent today. I have made the choice however, to be the one to break it for good in my M. Starting today, I am going to put my H to the "respect test". You husbands reading this can put your W's to the "love test."

I will be praying for the Lord to reveal to me new and different ways to show respect and tell my H of my respect and also for Him to remove any remaining disrespect I have for my H hidden and not so hidden in my heart. My goal will be to have my H start demonstrating and feeling more love for me. Yes, I know that is a rather vague goal at this point, but I don't really know how he will respond yet, and I must learn to be more observant so I will know what to look for. Of course, I will post what I see happen.

LG--looking to empower herself by learning to better respect her H as the Lord calls for her to do

**from Dr. James Dobson and his Focus on the Family program

[2ndChances]

LG, I can't believe you are posting this! My mother called me this morning to tell me about the same sermon. (She is aware that I had lost all respect for my wasband, and we've discussed how this seemed to lead to "the end")

We also discussed how funny it is, that we, as women are simply designed to love.... and how men don't much need or care about that. They just want us to respect them. I used to tell my wasband that he had to EARN respect, it could not be simply granted by me or anyone else. I think my own learning is that I had better not get involved with men who I cannot respect, since I am unwilling to fake it. AND, my respect is CONDITIONAL-- it is based on them behaving in ways I respect. If they behave badly, then my respect is eroded. It's very conditional.

This whole issue also came out in M counseling, near the end of my M. One of his top needs was my respect. Unfortunately, by that time, there was little I could honestly respect, and I was not willing to try lying about it. It did not work to mention abilities that he had but was not applying at present, or things from the past.... so in our case it was simply too late.

BTW, did you ever read or listen to Dobson's "Tough Love"? My pastor went through it with me, it was incredibly helpful and gave guidance that we both felt was very on target.

[trustinginHim]

SC--It is PRECISELY that CONDITIONAL respect that I am struggling with and want to rid myself of!

I have learned today that the issue of UNCONDITIONAL respect is a choice just like unconditional love and forgiveness are choices. You can choose to respect just as you can choose to love just as you can choose to forgive. Or not.

For me to break the crazy cycle of unlove/disrespect that is occurring in my M, with the Lord's help, I must learn how to UNCONDITIONALLY respect my H even after everything he has done, is still doing and will do in the future. And as I do that with my earthly H, I am also unconditionally respecting my Other H, Christ.

Yes, I have Dobson's book "Tough Love". It helped me immensely through this. In fact, when I "opened the cage door" (as Dobson puts it) to let my H go last winter, it was the turning point in my M that led to the beginning of our reconciliation.

LG--approaching respect for her H unconditionally

[2ndChances]

Unconditional respect? I must admit, I don't get it. Maybe I'm defining it wrong.

In business, I'd respect someone who succeeded, and did so ethically-- non discriminatory, above board practices, doing the right thing. If someone did these things in business, I would respect them. If they stopped doing those things, and started cutting corners, taking/giving bribes, behaving unethically; I could no longer respect them. My respect is conditional, it's only there when someone does/is things I find worthy of respect.

When my H chose to lie instead of tell the truth, chose to "slum" instead of earn a living, etc... well I could not longer respect him as I did when he was a loving, honest and hardworking man. So in my personal life, my respect was also conditional.

I'm confused. I'm going to go to the FOTF site, and see if I can get clarification. Oh, my mom just called, I will discuss it with her.

[trustinginHim]

Hi SC,

Did your mom clarify anything for you? I must admit the term "unconditional respect" threw me a bit also when it was first mentioned in the sermon, but I try to look at it as me choosing to show respect to another even when they don't deserve it--most especially when they don't deserve it.

Respect the other person simply as a human in the same way that you would like to be respected as a human, regardless of what hat you or they wear--W, H, SO, unethical boss, creepy co-worker, odd neighbor, etc, and their behavior should change in response to your treatment of them. If not, then it would be prudent to remove yourself and keep yourself removed from certain interactions with the ones whose behavior did not change in response to yours. But remember, this cycle of disrespect/unlove was specifically applied in the sermon to the H and W relationship, and NOT to work relationships, etc. If that is still confusing, I am sorry. I am still working it out myself.

Well, as for showing more respect to my H, I am still praying about that. However, several good things happened yesterday that I would like to journal.

>When my H finished his lunch yesterday, he got up and stood behind me and voluntarily gave me a very nice shoulder/back rub while I finished my lunch and read the paper. This is a first and as such, was completely unexpected.

>Last night after dinner, I escaped to the bedroom to watch a show on TV that I like while I left my H in the living room watching one of the Matrix movies for the, ugh, umpteenth time. He will watch all three Matrix movies over and over again, and all three Lord of the Rings movies over and over again, and all three Terminator movies over and over again. (Is this a guy thing or a movie fanatic thing?) I have watched them all with him (big 180 for me) until I can't take anymore, so when he started watching the second Matrix movie last night, AGAIN, like I said, I escaped.

Lo and behold, not long after I was comfortable in the bedroom, he turned off his movie before it was over, came to the bedroom, crawled in bed with me, snuggled and watched MY show with me!! And even liked it!! Then he got up and did some productive Christmas shopping online for a bit before coming to bed for the night.

>This morning, I tried another 180. I would like to think it was a respectful act of service. We had our first hard freeze of the season last night and as a result, H's car was iced up. I took the liberty of having it warmed up and de-iced for him by the time he left for work this morning. He is having his annual performance review today and has been stressing over it. When he ran out the door and found the car all warm and ready to go, he was incredulous!

Now H did make a snide comment this morning at breakfast, and I am not sure at who or what it was directed. There was a story in the paper about this new testosterone patch that women can wear to increase their libido. I am thinking that sounds like a lot of fun! My H's rather grumpy comment on the article was "Well that ought to drive productivity down!" Huh? I am still processing that one.

LG

[2ndChances]

Hi SC,

Did your mom clarify anything for you? I must admit the term "unconditional respect" threw me a bit also when it was first mentioned in the sermon, but I try to look at it as me choosing to show respect to another even when they don't deserve it--most especially when they don't deserve it.

I did talk it over with my mom, and went to the site-- but did not end up with the impression that they were talking about respecting men who did not deserve respect. It was more like, respect them for the things you can respect, and mention/focus on those things. However,there are boundaries, and if someone crosses the line (for example, a child molester) then you cannot and should not respect them; in fact you probably will decide not to have them as part of your life.

The FOTF site had several good articles about how much men need respect (similar to how women need love) and the details were along the lines of appreciating the good, as opposed to overlooking the good and focusing on the bad.

So my bottom line was perhaps different from yours-- and this could be attributable to not having heard the sermon directly, or it just could be a matter of interpretation. In either case, I think it's good to avoid taking for granted the things we appreciate about a partner, spouse, or anyone.... But for me, I probably fall out saying that if someone crosses certain lines, it limits the role they can play in my life--so that I can respect those who ARE in my life.

[2ndChances]

PS,

I don't mean to disagree with you and hope my post doesn't sound that way. I'm adding a couple of links to things that I found on the site that I thought were helpful on this topic of respect.

This first one talks about maintaining the lines of respect in a marriage:
http://family.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/family.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1000


and this one talks about respecting your husband in his role as spiritual leader-- and along the way, gives good examples of showing respect (ie appreciating rather than taking for granted) but does not go all the way into unconditional respect.

Anyway, I found them interesting and thought you might too,.
http://www.family.org/married/comm/a0026370.cfm

[trustinginHim]

Thanks SC! I am not looking at any of this as a disagreement at all. As I said previously, I am still trying to clarify all this for myself. I know I heard the pastor of the sermon use the term "unconditional respect", but perhaps I misunderstood the application of the term. I think I will purchase the CD of that sermon and/or the book because I think I am missing something about all this. The following, however, is what I found interesting about your links:

"A husband needs respect like he needs air to breathe," Eggerichs explains, "while love is by far a wife’s greatest need."

Dr. Emerson Eggerichs, who co-wrote Motivating Your Man God’s Way with his wife, Sarah, says this concept is the secret to a better marriage. Without it, couples can easily get caught up in the constant back-and-forth of complaining and stonewalling, action and reaction. Eggerichs calls it the "crazy cycle."

Relational Needs

The Bible states in Ephesians 5:33 that husbands are to love their wives, and wives are to respect their husbands. Seems easy enough, right? But this commonly cited verse makes a point that’s often overlooked, a point that is central to the crazy cycle: Men and women differ when it comes to their deepest relational needs.

If a husband’s deepest need (respect) and a wife’s deepest need (love) are fulfilled, their relationship is able to flourish. But when these needs are unmet, the cycle begins.

So, why this craziness? When a woman feels unloved, Eggerichs explains, she reacts in a way that may seem disrespectful to her husband. He then reacts to this disrespect in ways that feel unloving to his wife. The more she complains and criticizes, the more he shuts down and stonewalls.

"The message she’s trying to send is that she feels unloved at that moment," Eggerichs says. "But she will react in very negative ways that, in the male arena, feel disrespectful. She isn't trying to be disrespectful, but is feeling unloved. Sadly, he may not decode that."

So, how do you stop the "crazy cycle" once it’s started? Eggerichs says it’s as obvious as it seems: Mutual understanding begins when wives respect their husbands and husbands love their wives. His goal is to help couples better understand how to do that, putting an end to their crazy cycles.

Decision Time

As any married couple eventually discovers, romantic feelings don't exist everyday. It takes effort to keep a marriage strong, to keep minor disagreements from becoming major ones, to favor sweet words and tender glances over harsh comments and contemptuous glares.

"In Ephesians 5:33," Eggerichs says "God invites every married couple to make a conscious decision about how they appear to the other. A wife can feel unloved, but appear disrespectful; a husband can feel disrespected but appear unloving. This is why things get crazy! Our negative appearances work against us. God's Word protects us from that mistake."

He continues, "Really, all you have to do is learn this crazy cycle, and when you see the spirit of your spouse deflate, trust . . . that you’ve said something that appears unloving or disrespectful. Then go back and say, 'Did I come across as unloving/disrespectful? I'm sorry, will you forgive me?' That works almost every time."

Eggerichs has seen firsthand how marriages are transformed when husbands and wives put this fundamental concept into practice. When unconditional respect and love are demonstrated through tone, facial expression and word choice, the spirit of our spouse re-opens.

"We're going to have conflicts. We're going to get upset," Eggerichs says. "By dealing with marital conflict God's way, we can stop the crazy cycle before it starts. If things get out of control, we can halt the craziness. God's Word works."

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And...
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Mirror Him: The other common complaint I get from women is, "My spouse isn't attentive to my needs." These women usually have a laundry list of all the things their husbands aren't doing or saying — or buying for them. My usual reply is something like, "That sounds really hard. The only thing that might be harder would be to lose the marriage, go through divorce and be a single parent." Then I offer a suggestion for those women to try. I tell them to take their laundry list and try to live up to everything on it — and then see what happens. For example, if a woman doesn't think her husband listens enough to her, I suggest that she listen more to him. If she doesn't think he’s romantic, I encourage her to try romancing him. This way she is being like Jesus.

In almost every case, the woman comes back with rave reviews of the changes she is seeing in her husband. I think it is because it is naturally easier to see what is wrong, and harder to see what is right in a relationship — but kindness brings clarity.

In Philippians 2:4-5, we are told to have the same attitude as Jesus: "Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." I know it’s hard, but just try it for a couple of months. Pray for your spouse and give God time to work. It’s called mirroring. You do what you’d like to see done, but give it as a gift without expectations.

So, what all this boils down to is that I will be the one to break the "crazy cycle" in my M that Eggerichs refers to and will work harder on the "mirroring" concept.

Thanks again,
LG