So this is piecing...

[trustinginHim]

The Lord gave me an incredibly blessed day today! My H took today off to spend time with me!!!

We spent the entire morning together in bed (no, still none of that). We drank coffee and had an outstanding talk. We covered everything from BMOW to religion in quite a bit of detail. I can't even remember the last time we had a talk like this. I feel more emotionally connected to H than I have in a long, long time.

We had lunch and then spent the afternoon talking again together on the sofa. The mail came after lunch and it contained another interesting tidbit for BMOW. It was a letter from a credit card company telling my H that the "small business" card in his name had just been upgraded to a higher limit, etc.

Feeling very empowered by our talks, I asked H about this credit card. What was up? I thought he had filed bankruptcy on ALL his cards. He said that he didn't know anything about this card and that BMOW probably applied for it for the business and didn't think to tell him for whatever reason. I said the card is in your name. That means that she forged your signature. He said that he didn't think she would do a thing like that! I just shook my head and said very calmly and matter-of-factly that I wanted him to contact her via email first thing tomorrow and to request that his name be taken off the card, or have the account cancelled, or both. And if he doesn't deal with this promptly, I WILL get involved and take care of it. He immediately responded that he absolutley would get it taken care of tomorrow. I'll be checking, so we'll see.

Then we calmly resumed our talking. All in all, a GREAT day! Oh and I did get that other collection notice forwarded to BMOW and her info forwarded to the collection agency.

LG--GO me!!

[trustinginHim]

Spent the morning at church in Bible study and stuffing Christmas stockings for underprivileged children. Very gratifying work. Came rushing home at lunch to feed H and myself.

Before H got home though, I was able to check his email to see if he had addressed the credit card issue with BMOW. He had not that I could tell. So I fed him and let him get a cat nap in, then I asked him if the credit card issue was settled.

His response was not *quite* as defensive of BMOW as it has been in the past, but he is still defensive none-the-less and still not accepting his part in all this. He lectured me for about 15 minutes on why he can't/won't address the card issue with her, after having a meeting with one of the other business partners about it this morning.

He said that if he contacts her it will establish an open line of communication with her and he doesn't want that, nor does he want to accuse her of anything or rile her in any way. The reason being is that if BMOW IS riled, he is afraid that she will publically humiliate him and thus indirectly affect me, perhaps even cause him to lose his job, if she wanted to take it to that level. He said that when he discovered how vindictive she was, that was when he knew that he no longer wanted anything to do with her romantically. Instead, he remains tied to her because of this business that she refuses to leave, just yet, if ever, because he fears her doing to him what he knows she is capable of. For those of you not in the know, BMOW has a father worth about 350 million dollars, and yes I have met him and know his financial worth to be true. Thus, she has the resources to do major, vindictive harm if she so chooses.

One of the discussions H and I had yesterday involved the divorce proceedings I had started last fall, then dropped later. He mentioned that one of his colleagues divorced using the same lawyer I chose and that this lawyer subpoenaed the OW of the colleague's H and put her on the stand. I said that this lawyer would have done that to BMOW in our divorce if it had gone that far. H said that yes, he and BMOW had discussed it and were aware of that, but weren't worried because her father would have hired an expensive, nasty lawyer to "mop the courtroom floor" with me! How do you respond to that? I didn't and changed the subject.

Well, at least he is no longer saying that he is protecting me from her. Essentially, he is walking on eggshells because of BMOW! That never made any sense when he said in the past that he was protecting me anyway. He is REALLY worried about what she would do to HIM if she felt he had slighted her in any way.

His defense of her comes when he says that she has worked so hard on the business and that she deserves anything good that comes of it. All this for a woman he met on a sex personals website. Sheesh.

So his plan is to let sleeping dogs lie. (Ha ha--his words!) Do not provoke her and when she gets tired of playing at the business, she will just go away. Now, on the flip side, there is a strong possibility that by this time next year, the business, if it lasts that long, could actually start making money for reasons I am unable to disclose here, yet. He asked me if that happens and BMOW is rolling in the dough from the success of the company and we aren't because he completely severed ties with the company, now how would that make ME feel???? Gee, how WOULD I feel living off the sweat of BMOW's hard work?? Personally, I think there are other more qualified business managers who could do just as well or an even better job than her AND my H hasn't slept with them!! Well, that I know of.

So, again, my H has reiterated that BMOW will NOT be provoked in any way, and he is not going to completely sever ties with the company "just in case". The goal here is to hope that BMOW will just go away when she gets tired of playing business manager to a dot-com business that may ultimately fail. BUT it also could make some bucks and if that happens he said he and I will be traveling the US in our fully loaded RV or perhaps traveling abroad and BMOW will be slaving away back here, the furthest thing from our minds.

So, anybody want to take a stab at what phase of MLC he is still in? Who knows? Maybe this is the depression still talking. I am INCREDIBLY aware that H still harbors much bitterness and resentment toward me and still sees BMOW as someone worth deserving some sort of special consideration in his life--THAT is very apparent and also probably the reason/excuse that we aren't ML.

Well, all this is H's problem--not mine in the slightest. I will NOT be letting any of this nonsense affect me! He is ALL yours Lord--Your will, Your way and in Your time. I am placing this burden at the foot of the Cross.

LG--feeling much peace and comfort from her Lord today

[2Timothy_2_23]

Hey LG! been awhile.

Spent most of my afternoon catching up with your sitch, so forgive me if I just skip straight to some points.

1) Have you shared with H your revelation about H's R with BMOW being based on AFF?

2) My W has indirectly admitted she may have a sexual addiction, and is practicing abstinence as a form of control. She has decided it is better for her to have no activity than to "give in" to me and risk stimulating a desire to pursue her unhealthy sexual relationship with OM.

Do you think it is possible H is trying to get control of his own sexual addictions? There are a couple threads on Swinging (click here), I was going to recommend chatting with Danzona, aka March Madness, but looks like he has been off the BB since his W filed.

3) I'm not familiar with MLC stages - I probably should be by now - but I'm positive the journey through any emotional stages is not linear. H will waffle back and forth through them until he eventually, and finally, comes to final acceptance.
But I'm confused, if H gave away all his stock in the .dom company, how does he expect to enjoy the financial benefits from the company IF it is successful?

Forgive my ignorance of MLC, but shouldn't H purge himself of EVERYTHING that reminds him of/ keeps him in this stage of his life?

Purging is something he has to decide to do, and it appears that although he is benefiting from your shredding (I have a LOL image of you maniacally laughing with tiny chips of paper filling the air around you as you gleefully jam huge stacks of paper into a tiny wastebasket sized home shredder ), that he may be waffling between gratitude for your help, and resentment of you forcing him to accept reality.

Definitely a call for patience, although I agree with my MC. She doesn't pray for patience any longer, because God keeps testing her to see if she is using what He has given her.

btw: I moved to Jealousy / Infidelity, not a good place to be, but that's where I'm at, I decided to accept it, deal with it, and then move on.

plk

[trustinginHim]

plk!!!! I missed your wisdom sooooo much!!!! Ignoring the circumstances, it is good to hear from you again.

Have you shared with H your revelation about H's R with BMOW being based on AFF?

Sadly, no. A few months ago when I discovered the fact that there actually were several OW (based on charges I found on his cc statements as I shredded them--they were before and after his stint with BMOW), I confronted him about them one day when he came home for lunch. He completely lost it and I was treated to a lecture about how if I was going to dwell on the past and snoop, I could pack my bags and leave right then. There were MANY things he did that he said he is not proud of when he thought our M was over and he doesn't want to go back there and discuss/reveal detail with/to me. Essentially this tells me he probably did some really raunchy stuff trying to recapture his youth during his MLC trip. When I was cleaning up cookies and temporary internet files off our computers, it disgusted me the number of sex and swinging websites he visited. I'm sure he went as far as actually doing the FMF swinging, because that has always been his fantasy and the subject of all his porno. I just wonder if BMOW was his swinging partner. I trust I will have all the answers some day.

Anyway, he said to leave the past in the past. I do intend to let him know that I have put two and two together. When I will do this is up to the Lord's timing. My gut instinct is that now is NOT the time.

My W has indirectly admitted she may have a sexual addiction, and is practicing abstinence as a form of control. She has decided it is better for her to have no activity than to "give in" to me and risk stimulating a desire to pursue her unhealthy sexual relationship with OM.

Do you think it is possible H is trying to get control of his own sexual addictions?

Yes, this is it in a nutshell!! And I really didn't understand this until one of our discussions just yesterday. He told me that because it seemed that sex and everything involved with it had really done nothing but seemingly cause him pain and trouble of one sort or another all his life, he was having a hard time dealing with a sexual R with me right now. He said he was having to work through a lot of things and it was especially hard for him with me being a Christian now. He feels that he has to re-wire his thinking about sex and sex with me to be able to re-engage with me on this type of intimate level.

Also, it is possible that he has an STD. I finally put my foot down this afternoon and insisted that he see a doctor and have the full gamet of tests run. He agreed to call tomorrow and make an appointment. I think he has refused to see a doctor yet because he doesn't want to deal with the reality of having it confirmed that he has acquired herpes or the like from all this--just more guilt piled on him from his poor decisions.

I'm confused, if H gave away all his stock in the .dom company, how does he expect to enjoy the financial benefits from the company IF it is successful?

H believes that if the company proves successful that BMOW and the other partners will allow him to BUY back stock for some minimal amount, like a penny per stock. I have no idea how all that really works, but those are his plans.

Forgive my ignorance of MLC, but shouldn't H purge himself of EVERYTHING that reminds him of/ keeps him in this stage of his life?

Yes. In fact our counselor stressed this point, but H left it to me to do, knowing full well what I would discover. I guess it was a test for me.

Purging is something he has to decide to do, and it appears that although he is benefiting from your shredding (I have a LOL image of you maniacally laughing with tiny chips of paper filling the air around you as you gleefully jam huge stacks of paper into a tiny wastebasket sized home shredder), that he may be waffling between gratitude for your help, and resentment of you forcing him to accept reality.

First of all, your description of me shredding was very apt!! And yes, my H is STILL not ready to accept responsibility for and the reality of his past actions, but we are getting closer to the day when that will happen. Yes, patience is the key.

Thanks, plk. I'll be by your thread soon.

Blessings,
LG

[trustinginHim]

I spent a lot of time in prayer yesterday. The Lord has been placing some thoughts on my heart. When I got my email from Charlyne Cares today, it all became clear to me.

"ME? LOVE MY ENEMIES?"

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:44

How are you doing with loving your enemies? Who are some of your enemies? Do your love your prodigal spouse in spite of their behaviors, attitudes, actions and words? Have you asked the Lord to put His agape love in your heart for the other person? The Lord will give you His love as He died for all sinners and wants that other person to be saved also.

You may feel today that you have more people against you than are for you. Keep your eyes on your Lord. Do you know all what the Lord says about loving your enemies? Now you have to put it into practice!

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:27-31

It is easy to love the lovable, it is not easy to love the unlovable. It is not easy to turn the other cheek. Ask the Holy Spirit to pour unconditional love into your heart so that you can learn to love your enemies as Jesus did and as the Bible teaches us throughout the Word.

"He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and send rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?" Matthew 5:45-46

I know that you are hurting, feeling abandoned, lonely, and rejected by your spouse and possibly by other loved ones in so many ways. I know that often your spouse may be saying or doing things that wound you emotionally. God knows your hurts and needs. This is truly the beginning of developing your maturity in the Lord. I learned how to do this, by thinking, "What would Jesus do?" That kept my mind and heart in a proper perspective.

"If you enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you." Proverbs 25:21-22

Let God take revenge on your enemies. When you read and study the Bible, you read that the Lord protects His children from their enemies. God's children cry out and God causes confusion to the enemy while protecting His children. God's wants all of His children to become saved and serving Him. Pray that your spouse, other loved ones and friends will become obedient to God's will in their life and ask God to bless them. You will be blessed for your obedience to God's Word. Read Romans 12:9 to the end of the chapter. It truly teaches you about loving those who are coming against you now.

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge; I will repay," Says the Lord....Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:19,21

May you ask the Lord to show you how to love your spouse and others who you may consider today to be your enemies. Choose everyday to live in peace and unconditional love regardless of what others say or do to you. Give them to your Lord to handle. Read Genesis 13:1-12. Abraham chose to live in peace. What do you want to do?

"So Abram said to Lot, 'Let's not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers. Is not the whole land before you? Let's part company. If you go to the left, I'll go to the right; if you go to the right, I'll go to the left.'" Genesis 13:8-9

May you and I try every day to live in unity and peaceful lives. Allow the Holy Spirit to change you and your spouse's heart. See what the Lord can do through you by touching and changing your behavior, your actions and your attitude. May you and I make a difference in this world every day!

I think it is fair to say that BMOW is my enemy. She desires to remain in my H's life and thus indirectly in mine. My H desires that she remain in his life through the business. Well, I am now a prayer warrior for BMOW. I was at one time earlier in this journey, but I have become lax. I feel compelled through my Holy Spirit to do a better job of loving my enemy, so I shall, and will trust the Lord to take care of me.

It has been a most circuitous route, this season in my life.

LG

[trustinginHim]

Well, my H received notice today in the mail of a *second* credit card in his name linked to the business. Do you suppose that since she isn't making any money with the business that instead she is going to try to re-establish his credit for him?? I let my H know:

lost_girl: Hey--Congratulations!! It appears that you now have *two* business credit cards. I guess if she can't make you any money with the business, by golly, she is going to re-establish your credit for you through it!!!!

h: hahahahaha!

lost_girl:

h: which bank is this one on?

lost_girl: same one--but it has different numbers on it, indicating a different credit card.

h: well, maybe I have twice as much credit with them then. hahahahahaha!

h: ...guess I need to ask about that

lost_girl: well, I don't know what is going on, and it is strange that this is happening now.

h: yeah. but I am not reading anything bad into it.

lost_girl: perhaps nothing is bad about it, but it sure is odd. Doesn't the bank account for the business have a debit card?

h: yeah, a debit card. but like i say, she was disenchanted with them because they would not do anything for her. she was having some problems with an overcharge, and didn't get any help correcting it. perhaps she just switched banks and moved everything over.

lost_girl: ok, I just thought I would let you know.

h: I should be home pretty soon. Things have about wrapped up here and I am getting my work done.

lost_girl:

H and I had a very good talk at lunch that he initiated. He said that he and a business partner had another meeting this morning to discuss further monies being invested in this business. There is an amount of about $4500 that supposedly my H and this partner have promised BMOW for expenses connected to the business. After my H told me that they will more than likely give her the money, I held my tongue until he asked me what I thought.

I told him I thought he was pouring money down a rat hole and the chance of there being a return on ANY of his investment so far was extremely slim. His part of that amount would sure help with expenses here in our own household and with the upcoming holidays. So then he said that they wouldn't give her the money until she could provide a plan to them that would designate where every penny of that would be spent. They are going to meet with business partner #3 in two weeks and get his input.

LG--praying for her enemy and trying to look at the positives here

[trustinginHim]

Things are peaceful and quiet for me today. I have really begun to be incredibly less anxious about things as I pray for BMOW and for the Lord to fill my heart with His agape love.

I ended up making my H's doctor appointment. They will see him tomorrow morning for a full nether regions exam. I told my H about the appointment when I made it and he said, "Oh, I think what is wrong has started to go away again. I was going to surprise you!" I said, "Show me." So he was very compliant and did, but it did not look as if it had gone away at all. I have NO idea what IS wrong--no experience with this sort of stuff whatsoever, but he WILL be at the doctor tomorrow. I have been too passive about this too long letting him convince me it is nothing. We will know tomorrow and my H WILL have to face the reality of his actions. It is time to deal with this to continue to heal and move forward. I am prepared for the outcome, whatever it is.

LG

[trustinginHim]

And so the waffling by my H continues.

Later Friday night before bed, he told me to cancel his doctor's appointment on Saturday because he had decided not to go. He stated he just wasn't going to spend the amount of money it would require for the office visit and treatment of his suspected problem. Spending the money and getting it taken care of just was not a good thing for him to do right now.



I was so taken by surprise that I was unable to really respond to him with something other than a trite attempt at validation, "I see you feel very strongly about handling it this way." I then left the room to gather my wits. After pondering his line of thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that he is probably using whatever is physically wrong with him as an excuse to keep from having sex with me, and, if taken to it's logical conclusion, with anyone else for that matter, which may all tie into the breaking of his sexual addiction habit, as plk mentioned. If the problem were healed up, he would actually have to come up with a different reason to say no. I am going to assume that the few times we have ML since our reconciliation, he was not having an active outbreak of whatever it is afflicting him. I don't seem to show any symptoms at this point if he HAS been able to transmit whatever it is to me, because if I did, I would be at the doctor getting it diagnosed and treated!!

I spent yesterday getting my H ready for a business trip that he left on today. He is off to a national meeting where he will get to see and spend time with his XW. It was during this same trip last year that I moved out while he was gone. It was also during this trip last year that he was propositioned by his XW and he realized that he still had feelings for her. He claims that he turned her proposition down because in his own words, "It was just wrong." I don't even know what to really think about that whole trip last year. I believe that when he told me he felt it would be wrong to have sex with his XW it was because he felt he would be cheating on BMOW, or whoever his girlfriend was at the time. I think I was long out of that equation already!

Anyway, his XW fully intends to spend time with him this trip too--she has sent him emails to that effect, asking him when he was arriving and what specific meetings he would be attending during the conference, etc. I don't know if he ever answered them. He didn't from the account I have access to anyway. Perhaps this is why he didn't want to get his problem treated, so he has that additional excuse to turn her down with! I am just thankful that I am so detached at this point that I can look at all this craziness and not really be affected by it.

Things are very quiet on the BMOW front--so no demands for money yet, and I like that. The less my H hears from her, my thinking about her becomes limited to when I pray for her. Perhaps she is all wrapped up in the upcoming holidays and we won't hear from her until next year--when she wants out of the business! Just wishful thinking on my part. I am also sensing that things are not going so well for her in the fiance arena. Don't know yet if that is good or bad news for me and my H. All the things the fiance was doing for the business as the new Sales and Marketing person, or whatever his role was, have abruptly ceased. Hmmmm.

Well, the weather here is cold and rainy, and I have the house ALL to myself until late Wednesday night. I am thinking I may get me a fire roaring in the fireplace this afternoon and knit for awhile on an afghan I am making. I think a nap will follow in short order. Now that sounds like a plan!

LG--enjoying her time apart from all the drama involving her H

[trustinginHim]

I guess even when my H is away, I am still unable to escape his drama. Last night was one of the worst nights I have had in a long time. My H did not call me at the usual appointed time from his out-of-town meeting. I fell asleep waiting for his call, which finally came well after 1 am.

His call came so late because he had spent the evening with his XW at a mixer and then they went to dinner alone together. He said he allowed her to pay for the meal as she wanted to treat him.

I had actually awakened a few minutes before he called me and was laying in bed contemplating calling him and debating the reasons for doing so. The last time he traveled without me, it was with BMOW and when he didn't call the last night of their "business" trip together, they had been to dinner and then were having sex back in the room, so he forgot to call as he was so "busy". I wasn't sure how I would take interrupting anything going on similar to that last night with XW or someone else. Another time when he was away with BMOW and it was incredibly late, I DID call to check on him and that was the first time I got to deal with his angry man side protecting his lover. Not fun!

BMOW is not with him on this trip, but his XW is there, so I was wrestling with these memories and had just about decided to give him a call when the phone rang and H shared that he was sorry to call so late, but he had spent the evening with his XW, and he would probably call me again about this same time tonight. He was too tired really to talk so the call was brief. He mentioned that everyone seemed to think that he was doing much better emotionally this year at this meeting than he was last year. I would imagine last year he was depressed because I had just discovered the affair with BMOW and his secret, exciting life was now over, but he had no idea yet that I had moved out of the house as a result of the affair discovery. I left that for him to discover when he arrived home.

Anyway, after the phone call, I was awake for hours, not really sure what feelings I was dealing with. I still have much contemplation to do, although, I am sensing an incredible lack of respect toward me in a number of areas. I apologize if this has been apparent to my lurkers and I have frustrated you as I slowly came to this conclusion. Now I must determine what I can do to regain his respect for me, because seemingly what I have been doing apparently isn't working.

Right now, my immediate goal however, is to pamper myself a bit, so I am off to the salon for a hair makeover.

LG

[trustinginHim]

H surprised me and called me early tonight. It seems he will be out even later than he first thought tonight and felt he should call me BEFORE he went out. He says he is going to another mixer, but tonight he will be out with the "boys" and thus it will be a REALLY late night. Lovely.

Anyway, he had been asking me about my day and I mentioned that I had been fighting some back and neck pain and was in the process of applying heat to the areas that were hurting. He kind of teasingly said that the location of the pain suggested I must be experiencing some stress and tension in my life. I shocked him and said that, "Yes, I am."

He did a sharp intake of breath and asked me, "Really? Why? What's wrong?"

That instigated a long talk between us that was somewhat productive, but with him out-of-state until late tomorrow, I didn't think that it was prudent to have a real "nuts and bolts" long distance discussion. So I kept it somewhat light, but I did tell him that I was not happy any longer with the status quo because I think we have addressed very few, if any, of the underlying causes of our marital problems. Instead, we seemed to have swept everything aside like nothing was ever wrong.

He did agree that he probably was still depressed and will re-start his ADs again upon returning home. We all know how well he has been keeping promises lately, so we will see on that.

I also mentioned that we needed to continue our joint counseling and our individual counseling. He resisted mightily to this. He absolutely refuses to discuss anything related to his/our past because he is convinced it will be solely to hurt him which in turn he said will cause him to develop further feelings of bitterness and resentment toward me again. He claims he has cut the past off and left it behind. He does NOT want to revisit it under any circumstances because of the intense pain he will feel upon doing so. That tells me that he still just refuses to accept his responsibility for his part in the failure of our marriage AND his first marriage.

Interestingly on that note, during last night's phone call since we were on the subject of his XW, he mentioned in the line of our conversation that he has never been able to forgive her for embarrassing him in public in front of a bunch of his friends when she caught him with another woman in a bar when they were still married. I didn't say anything because she wasn't any more faithful to him than he was to her, but I was thinking that I couldn't believe that he still harbored the resentment and bitterness toward her for that situation, and refused to validate her feelings and understand why she might have been a bit upset with the whole scenario.

Of course now he is panicky and more depressed. He asked me if I was going to be moved out again when he got home from this conference. I reassured him that was not happening.

Well, I need to collect my thoughts and prepare for upcoming discussions. I told him that I needed to make a list of things I felt we needed to address and that freaked him out! He said, "You need to make a list???!!! There is that much to discuss?????"

Sigh. I hope I am doing the right thing. All I know is that I am unhappy and feel ready to move to the next level and finally address issues bothering me that do not appear to be resolving themselves with time. He seems to act as if everything was ok in his world and that I have blind-sided him. I now wonder, am I doing the right thing? Is this bad DBing, or has bad DBing brought me to this point?

LG--praying that she can do this correctly without dissolving into a puddle when her H goes into his angry man mode during discussions