Maybe try another medium? We already know talking is NOT his preferred medium. How about in writing? How about in a different place or time of day?
there doesn't seem to be any "right time of day" "time of year" "weather" or medium..Over the past 15 years I've tried letters, talking, crying, councelling, leaving (long before marriage as we dated 9 years before m), being playful about it, and about all that seems to work is threatening to leave and that is NOT the way I want to go about having my needs met.
And even that can be misinterpreted - my H's continual pleas for me to change were wrapped in his smoldering anger and interpreted by me as A) a lack of love for me, B) a criticism of me and lack of him "loving me for who I am", I have done my best to not ask for what I need out of anger and clearly try to express that it is I who feel a lack of being loved when my needs are not met or shoved asside for a rainy day. and C) a frightening threat that carried an implied "or else I'll leave you" which really kicked in my fears of abandonment. well can you imagine how I feel...I can't ask for my needs to be met else I'm faced with "be happy with what you get or I'LL leave you again...since after all part of the reason I left was becuase you weren't happy with me" No wonder I couldn't really hear what he was asking me for, with so many layers of fear and meaning wrapped around it!
Quote: since after all part of the reason I left was becuase you weren't happy with me"
So - doesn't this mean he (mis)interprets your pleas as you not loving him and valuing him?
What would happen if, instead of asking him for the things you want, you asked him what you could give him that HE wants? (Don't whack me yet!!!)
What if you wrote to him: "H, I realize my requests for things I want in the R make you feel like I'm not happy with you and don't love you. Since this isn't true, I'm realizing that I must not be doing the things that would make you feel happy and loved. (And obviously, isn't that what we'd both like, to feel happy and loved?) So I'd like to ask you, what could I be doing differently or better in this R that would contribute to you feeling happy and loved?"
We've been at this a while, doing our best to DB and make positive changes. Like I shared on my thread, time isn't what makes it easier, effort over time is. Specifically, goal oriented effort.
When I made the effort today to review my original goals I thought would show my actions were having an affect, I realized that almost 90% of them were being met! So why was I still so miserable? Why was I no longer as dedicated to having a new - happy M as I was at first?
I hadn't acknowledged that I was getting what I wanted, and I hadn't established new goals to keep the progress going.
In your case:
Quote: I would like: one night a week set asside for us to spend some qt together... I would like more physical intimacy
So my question to you is, although taking the family out isn't exactly quality time alone, is it a step in the right direction for H? You want him to spend time with you, but you are resentful when he leaves a voicemail suggesting the family spend time together!?!
Take Credit for the little things! and IMHO is time you re-examine your goals, and pick the right time to ask again for what you want.
From a man's point of view, we don't screw-up and buy flowers. We buy flowers and then screw-up, buy flowers and then screw-up.... We need action oriented, specific requests. If you tell me you want to spend the evening playing cards, darts, or whatever - okay, whatever. You get whatever you ask for, pun intended.
Finally, it may be in your previous posts, but revisiting it now was helpful for me, What have you determined are H's Love Languages and what are you doing to make HIM feel loved?
Quote: since after all part of the reason I left was becuase you weren't happy with me"
So - doesn't this mean he (mis)interprets your pleas as you not loving him and valuing him?
no I wouldn't say that. I would however guess it may send a message to him that he's just not good enough or that I'm some how insatiable.
What would happen if, instead of asking him for the things you want, you asked him what you could give him that HE wants? (Don't whack me yet!!!)
I'm sorry that my bluntness and lack of need to beat around the bush or pretty things up is taken as "whacking people" I'm direct...what can I say.
more to the point. I've asked h what he wants...he can't answer...I've asked him what he's not happy with...he has no reply...basically what it comes down to is he's happy..his needs are being met all that remains is for me to be happy and have my needs met and that he doesn't seem to feel is his responsibility. Somehow in his mind it is his responsibility to offer financial stability, a nice lawn, empty trash barrells in the garage and nothing more.
What if you wrote to him: "H, I realize my requests for things I want in the R make you feel like I'm not happy with you and don't love you. Since this isn't true, I'm realizing that I must not be doing the things that would make you feel happy and loved. (And obviously, isn't that what we'd both like, to feel happy and loved?) So I'd like to ask you, what could I be doing differently or better in this R that would contribute to you feeling happy and loved?"
I do not intend my reply to be taken as a "whack" or as disinterest in what you are saying. I've much respect for the advice you offer on the bb..however I have said and written such sentiments to h and recieved nothing in return. I could go and pull out very old letters I've written with much the sentiment you've stated and you know what??....they didn't do anything.
Ellie
I refuse to feel hopeless...I want this m to work out..I want my children to have what I no longer have (their parents together) but I don't want it if it isn't benificial to all in more than a monotary sense.
We've been at this a while, doing our best to DB and make positive changes. Like I shared on my thread, time isn't what makes it easier, effort over time is. Specifically, goal oriented effort.
yes! I've got the goals in mind just no way to reach them.
When I made the effort today to review my original goals I thought would show my actions were having an affect, I realized that almost 90% of them were being met! So why was I still so miserable? Why was I no longer as dedicated to having a new - happy M as I was at first?
I hadn't acknowledged that I was getting what I wanted, and I hadn't established new goals to keep the progress going.
I'm not getting 25% of what I wanted so why start new goals to add to the dissapointment unless they are goals that have nothing to do with my m?
In your case:
Quote: I would like: one night a week set asside for us to spend some qt together... I would like more physical intimacy
So my question to you is, although taking the family out isn't exactly quality time alone, is it a step in the right direction for H? yes it is, but it's not a regular occuarance and isn't likely to continue...it is a result of an arugument..a satiating expression...mere frosting...if however it was to become a regular thing that would be something else..but as you know with the was they want to know if the "changes are for real and will last" I am no different than a was at this point.
You want him to spend time with you, but you are resentful when he leaves a voicemail suggesting the family spend time together!?!
Not resentful at all. Simply puzzled as to why now? why after an expression of displeasure with how things have been going...why not when I simply ask or suggest? why as a result of a statement of "this sucks" do things suddenly seem to get better?
Take Credit for the little things! and IMHO is time you re-examine your goals, and pick the right time to ask again for what you want.
I'm pretty tired of asking for what I want. If I have to ask my h to be physical with me (in other words have sex or sexual contact) well then I really don't want to. or if I have to ask him to spend time with me well then am I going to appreciate it when we go out? I've asked far to many times...stated it again and again..gave up...had councelor suggest it...was denied and so I stay silent taking myself out instead...hoping he will fall asleep on the couch so at least I can have sexual gratification with myself while he's not there instead of wanting it but fearing the constant rejection and thus going without since he rarely initiates.
From a man's point of view, we don't screw-up and buy flowers. We buy flowers and then screw-up, buy flowers and then screw-up....
my h only buys flowers on birthdays, anniversaries or valentines day..other than that I fill the vase myself.
We need action oriented, specific requests. If you tell me you want to spend the evening playing cards, darts, or whatever - okay, whatever. You get whatever you ask for, pun intended.
I've specifically stated..staying awake is key...don't know what your "whatever" is meant to imply but I've been clear that falling asleep on the other couch isn't quality connecting time.
Finally, it may be in your previous posts, but revisiting it now was helpful for me, What have you determined are H's Love Languages and what are you doing to make HIM feel loved?
acts of service- I cook, I clean, I pick up for him what he needs, I help out with whatever job he's got planned for outside (like filling a wheelbarrow with crushed stone to put around the shed) when he's busy with work I always offer to help out in anyway I can though it's rare that he'll let me.
words of affirmation- letting him know what a great job he's done at developing and maintaining the yard and his business this one is BIG since it seems OW pretty much got him with it..."going to bat for him with some other customers that were questioning his billing"
gifts- have to stop myself from picking him up needless things representing his football team but do ask anytime I'm going to the store if he needs anything which ties in to aos
physical touch-doesn't seem to be his ll at all and I'm insulted when rejected so don't much bother anymore
quality time-also doesn't seem to be high up on his ll list so I give him his space but am available
plk
I often regret the fact that I've been so honest and open on the bb...so real and true to who I am...for it seems that in doing so I've presented an image of formidableness (I can't spell for [censored] regularly never mind after a few glasses of wine and a philosophical book club discussion) What some may recognize but other don't see is that I am not at all what a first impression may gather.
relevant to anything or not....here are some examples of whta h came from....
when marrying h mil stated that she'd like to buy me a new set of underwear (as if I wasn't capable fo buying my own underwear at 24)
while out at a mall before marrying h it was suggested to me by mil that I should get myself a "nice blazer" as if I should suddenly change my manner of dress simply because I was getting married
grand mil is of the thinking that a womans job is to take care of her home, man and raise children (no wonder her daughter that didn't have children has issues)
an example of the controling manner of mil?
h can't even fart in his own house without comment from mil
just recently while out shopping in a department store I left her to go look in the bra department as after spending some time in the fitting rooms I decided it was time for some new ones.
well...mil not only felt compelled to show me the granny bras that she wears and suggest I try them (I'm talking 4 hooks for a 36 back) but also insisted I model my choosings and when I didn't like a particular bra she had to adjust it and decide just why not?
for christ sake I'm almost 32 years old and my own mother wouldn't expect me to model my bra's for her..she'd trust me enough to choose something that was comfortable and did the job I was expecting it to do.
this woman actually aruged with me over a bra I had tried on..I didn't like it...it was constricting and uncomfortable and likely to find a back position in my bra drawer...
how am I to deal with this?
can't talk to h...he has accepted her "that's just the way she is" anyone else I talk to only re-enforces the for me that she's nuts. I'm talking this is a woman who was not asked to be at the birth of my first child and had to be kicked out of the room once I started pushin him out...and yet didn't actually leave only stood peeking over the other side of the curtain.
I don't know why I'm now talking about my mil when she doens't have a whole lot to do with my m unless of course we use the ole "mothers to blame for everything" and imply that h is the way he is (his role is to provide financially for his family and nothing more) is a direct result of his upbringing.
if anyone hasn't guessed it by now...some of the added stress lately is a result of the fact that instead of taking an hour drive to be with my family for thanksgiving at which will be present several children whom my kids adore and who adore my kids not to mention numerous anunts and uncles that could just eat them up...we will be driving two hours the night before to sleep over at his families where there are no other children and where all the adults seem to want to do nothig more than find there own tv and watch what they want to watch. Not that they don't adore the children as much as my family...but it seems to be more of a for 5 min or in 5 min..then let me get back to my football. since it is an over night and then all day event I am not to keen on going. My children being the only on his side are very judged and it often makes for much tension...tension h doesn't notice much because when he's not off watching football he's placing unreasonalbe expectations on a 5 and 3 year old to act like miniature adults as his family does. I don't want to go there...the 5 year old having heard nothing from me doesn't want to go there (his words...it's too far..and I assume he'd rather be with his cousins having fun than answering a bunch of questions from aunts and uncles) I understand this is all part of being married and having children but when can it actually become what's in the best interst of the children and the family? sure we spend time with his family...fil lives with us..mil just spent the weekend with us...mil took dd and s to her mothers while I was at a class and if I'm not mistaken saw sil and poss bil and other sil as well.
it's not that I don't like his family I do...it's just that they don't have any children and/or have forgotten what it is like to have young children. It will not be relaxing or enjoyable for me and therefore not relaxing or enjoyable for the children or anyone else around. We will go because it is apparently what h has his heart set on...I don't have a good feeling about it and I'd obviously for a lot of reasons rather not go. we seem to work better when we are alone (like me, h and kids) rather than the added mothers expressing their opionion of things.
I should also note that h doesn't stick up for me and my thoughts when with his family...he just goes into drone mode and sounds like he's reciting what is expected of him.
LL - please don't take our probing as hostile or uncaring - just the opposite.
It's just that I've read your threads here now for ages, and you really seem to be stuck. We're trying to help you find a new way of seeing things, a new approach, something that takes you out of the bitterness and into a new, better happier you.
Some thoughts: - if your H falls asleep on you every night, either he works too much, has a medical condition (for me, it was my thyroid - 9:00 came and I was hit by a truck every night. Poor H couldn't BEGIn to get a rise out of me after 9!) - or he has clinical depression (why should he be any different than 90% of the WASs?). Maybe he needs some help with this.
As for you - I keep hearing how you feel trapped, how he's making you so unhappy - but I'm not hearing much about what you're doing to make yourself happy, to make your life more exciting and interesting. For me, setting the goal to climb Mt. Whitney was the distraction I needed to get my focus off my H and onto me - what would do it for you? What dreams could you pursue right now? How could you spread your wings?
As for the in-laws - you know, you don't have to love them, just be polite. Pretend they are casual acquaintances you met at a cocktail party, and let their comments roll off your back (and don't be crazy enough to go shopping with MIL again - yuck! ).
And Thanksgiving? Just tell H next year is your turn with your family, then be gracious about the whole thing. Really, you are loading it with all kinds of other anger and resentment that don't belong there.
Maybe a book and some new videos for the kids, some games you could play with them so they can be kids instead of little adults and just try to make the best of it. For Christmas visits, ask if the first stop can be your choice.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Quote: LL - please don't take our probing as hostile or uncaring - just the opposite.
Ellie, I don't take it as any of those things..I know where you are all coming from. My comments were more in response to the fact that people often missinterperet my posts as being those things when they aren't.
It's just that I've read your threads here now for ages, and you really seem to be stuck. We're trying to help you find a new way of seeing things, a new approach, something that takes you out of the bitterness and into a new, better happier you. and I greatly appreciate it.
Some thoughts: - if your H falls asleep on you every night, either he works too much, I would think this to be the case except he still seems to fall asleep during his "off season" has a medical condition he could very well have a medical condition but becuase it is not something that bothers him and is also "excepted" way in his family...he doesn't look into it. (for me, it was my thyroid - 9:00 came and I was hit by a truck every night. Poor H couldn't BEGIn to get a rise out of me after 9!) - or he has clinical depression (why should he be any different than 90% of the WASs?). because frankly he thinks he's better than everyone. I don't see him as being depressed but what do I know..again nothing he'd look into even with promting unless of course I send him underwear shopping with his mother Maybe he needs some help with this.
As for you - I keep hearing how you feel trapped, how he's making you so unhappy - but I'm not hearing much about what you're doing to make yourself happy, to make your life more exciting and interesting. For me, setting the goal to climb Mt. Whitney was the distraction I needed to get my focus off my H and onto me - what would do it for you? What dreams could you pursue right now? How could you spread your wings?
while h was gone I started a book club that meets monthly, I've recently started a moms night out club, I've joined a dinner club, I've painted rooms and/or furniture, I became a volunteer with the towns ambulance company, took an emt course, have monthly training sessions with the company etc.
yes these are things that keep me busy and give me something to look forward to...so bit of a life outside of home.
what I really want for me isn't in the cards just yet for financial and well due to the fact that my kids are young and I'm home with them.
I want to get a masters degree in counselling (and of course I wouldn't be so blunt) the masters degree can come later...since the kids are young and I'd like to be around for them I'd like to start out in some capasity within a school system thus giving me summers,holidays,vacations etc to be around for the kids...eventually when the kids are older I'd like to work with either a private or group practice dealing with families or couples.
As for the in-laws - you know, you don't have to love them, just be polite. Pretend they are casual acquaintances you met at a cocktail party, and let their comments roll off your back (and don't be crazy enough to go shopping with MIL again - yuck! ). yes yuck! I try the "letting it roll of your back" way but eventually my blood boils...I can only brush off so many comments.
And Thanksgiving? Just tell H next year is your turn with your family, then be gracious about the whole thing. Really, you are loading it with all kinds of other anger and resentment that don't belong there. I'm trying not to let my thoughts be colored with other things but that aint easy.
