title of the thread comes from the last post on the last thread...
just sifting through the rubble that is my m. not sure where it went wrong... can't point back to any particular time..well with the exception of perhaps h's starting his business...but that was well over a decade ago and we got married AFTER that point. Perhaps things were already wrong when we got married. I know that could be viewed as having mud colored glasses on but in reality it's not. things were already a miss before we got married.
does that mean things are doomed forever?
I'd like to think not but it certainly would be hard to build a new r after 16 years the majority of having been drifted through as token bf gf rather than actual partners.
I don't want to view my m as a mistake.
I don't want to think "oh we married for the wrong reasons"
I don't want to sound like a broken record but I do...
since before we got married there have been things I did not like about the r and though I always tried to address them they never changed...I changed myself and that made ME happy but did little if anything for the r.
SO then what were and are the complaints?
lack of quality time spent together
lack of physical attention
words of affirmation
that's basically what it all comes down to. I could give examples and complain away at how h finds time and energy for this or for that instead of me but that wouldn't really get me anywhere would it!
H grows ever content as I grow ever detached.
before ow I had started to just accept my fate...accept that I had a h who liked to do little more than work and watch sports. Tried to assure myself that I had the good life, that h's working so much was for the benifit of our future and our childrens future. Though it did bother me that we spent little time together then at least I could console myself with the positive side of it and figured well h is happy I should be too.
But h wasn't happy. Or was he? I don't really know as he said so many damn things that I can't keep it all straight. Part of his reason for doing what he did (ow and then leaving us for well over 6 months) initially was ME and well then his story changed...now it's just that he was under stress, new house, new baby on the way (uhm baby wasn't conceived til after he started hanging with ow and what expenation does he have for why he hung out with her before we got married but were engaged?)
Now I can't console myself into thinking that h is working for us and our future. If he sought out ow or even accepted her advances even if just for friendship that led to ea...well then he's missing something too.
I'm not happy with the r...don't feel close to him at all...most often feel like he's further away from me than a clerk in a store...so what's the deal?
don't want to bother talking to him about it since it gets us no where.
I have no plans no goals...I'm simply sifting through my own life and preparing for a future with or without him. Sad thing is it seems whether we d or not my life will most likely be without him it always has been.
LL - I'm really sorry that things haven't progressed more for you in the past year...
Something that finally made a lot of sense for me was coming to the realization that I probably have a condition called Asperger Syndrome (or High-Functioning Autism) which would explain a great deal of my communication difficulties. Reading about your H, I wonder if he may have this as well. Since it is inherited, are there any relatives of his that exhibit similar traits to his? Although it generally reflects on males, it is not uncommon for females to have this condition as well.
It has a lot of very good information for you to sink your teeth into. There's also a very good that W bought last year that really delves into the dynamics of Asperger's: "Asperger Syndrome and Long-Term Relationships" by Ashley Stanford and Liane Holliday Willey. Amazon.com has it if you (or anyone else) wishes to order it. It was a real eye-opener for me. Hopefully others will check this out as well...
Will I start up a thread again here on the BB? No - I think that it is best for me to help others out here rather than focusing on my sitch. KAW knows how to get in touch with me...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
I don't like to put labels on anyone as I find that most anybody given a few traits could be put into one box or another.
I don't know if h has any disorder and doubt that he'd ever even consider such a thing.
h is social...has to be...his work involves speaking with people on a daily basis (customers, employees, vendors etc)
basically I think h is the way he is as a result of his upbringing. He comes from a world in wich the women cook and clean and gather in the kitchen while the men work and watch sports.
I think what it comes down to is we are just very miss matched.
Yeah, I know a little (text book info only) about Asperger's and your H doesn't quite seem to fit...first thing that popped into my head were those leisurely lunches with ow....grrrr
I guess I'm just kind of beaten down and exhausted (sound familiar) by the unremitting failure of your H to even attempt to meet some of your basic needs. I've thought of you often when CJ and I spend an entire day and evening together, just hanging or bike riding, taking a drive, having/cooking dinner.
It's nearly incomprehensible that your H doesn't GET how little he could do for SO much benefit to your M. Is there ANY novel, crazy, big, small, stupid, smart, drastic way to get him to GET this???
I recall Therapy not really working for you guys in the past (did you go one time on your own and H didn't even ask about it?)...but could a real behaviour focussed C help? WOULD your H be more likely to follow through on homework assignments (like quality time)if it were linked with follow-up visits??
I'm starting to think that might be what it will take for CJ and I to get the PA thing out of the ditch. It's like HE's in a comfort zone in that one area and it's driving me crazy, making me doubt everything else.
hey Shiny, nice to have you back around...I always did apreciate your input.
Quote: Hi LL,
Yeah, I know a little (text book info only) about Asperger's and your H doesn't quite seem to fit...first thing that popped into my head were those leisurely lunches with ow....grrrr grrr here too! I try not to go down that road but can't help but wonder what could compell h to talk to her every day on the phone or at some points visit her 3x a week for "lunch" and I can't even get one measily night a week out of him. but I digress...
I guess I'm just kind of beaten down and exhausted (sound familiar) by the unremitting failure of your H to even attempt to meet some of your basic needs. I'm pretty damn tired of it myself! I've thought of you often when CJ and I spend an entire day and evening together, just hanging or bike riding, taking a drive, having/cooking dinner. what I would give for just an evening spent productively together.
It's nearly incomprehensible that your H doesn't GET how little he could do for SO much benefit to your M. I think he's pretty confident by now that I'm not going anywhere...I mean after all these years why should he suddenly take an active role in the r? Is there ANY novel, crazy, big, small, stupid, smart, drastic way to get him to GET this??? the only thing that seems to work is the occassional outburst, fight, but I'm pretty sick of it and at this point would rather just not say a word and go about my own business and let him rot away from my mind.
I recall Therapy not really working for you guys in the past (did you go one time on your own and H didn't even ask about it?)... I went alone while he was gone...he then joined me for a bit (only after my calling a lawyer myself as a result of his lackluster attitude toward reconcilliation) it didn't go well any time I tried to address any issues...seems he just wanted every thing to be honkey dory! but could a real behaviour focussed C help? I doubt it WOULD your H be more likely to follow through on homework assignments (like quality time)if it were linked with follow-up visits?? the c we went to tried very hard to address the issue of quality time but h wouldn't budge. He just can't wont commit to it. to be honest I don't have much desire or energy to go to a c with him anymore...it would have to be his idea at this point and that will happen when monkeys fly out my butt!
I'm starting to think that might be what it will take for CJ and I to get the PA thing out of the ditch. It's like HE's in a comfort zone in that one area and it's driving me crazy, making me doubt everything else. I can understand that...what happens when you just get comfortable and don't think of the pa stuff? or when you are non sexually affectionate toward him? I guess what I'm saying is...I feel you girl! oh what a world...
Shiny
I should add an example of how h avoids time with me/us...he mowed the lawn last night...therefore doesn't have to do it this weekend...we have a pty to go to on sun (bday for nephew) he just informed me (by phone as he still isn't home yet) that he may have to take a drive to drop off a check...uhm? why not do it tommorow when he's closer to that area? his explenation makes no sense.
bday pty at my moms tommorow...taking my advice h ran his errand today rather than taking a 3-4 hour chunk out of tomorow morning (it just didn't make sense that way and for once I was able to persued him).
h has been mentioning getting a shed before the winter so I suggested we maybe take a trip on monday to the local stores that carry them and have a final look and place an order as well as pick up a new bearuae (danm how do you spell that?) for dd. H sounded agreeable...perhaps we'll make a day of it with the kids and get lunch somewhere.
I wont hold my breath but it seems a swing is in the air...how long will it last? I guess that depends on how long I can stay aloof...guess h enjoys a challenge to bad all I want is a companion.
Hey there LL ... sorry I havn't come around more often, but I've basically have run out of new suggestions. One thing tho I found out recently is that sometimes in order to shake things up to trigger a different direction, we have to forgo our analyzing whether is will work to draw them closer or not and just take a chance. Like a football play ... not matter how much you scratch it out on a chalkboard, it comes down to calling it at the right time and executing it to find out if it can be a big yardage maker. So with that thought, I'm not suggesting anything new, but pointing out areas where it might be worth just going for it and hope for the best...
Quote: grrr here too! I try not to go down that road but can't help but wonder what could compell h to talk to her every day on the phone or at some points visit her 3x a week for "lunch" and I can't even get one measily night a week out of him. but I digress...
Have you ever mentioned to him point blank, "What frustrates me the most about our M is how you have demonstrated if someone matter enough to you ... you can find time to spend 3x a week with them and yet having you spending that kind of time with me is what matters to me the most and you can't seem to find it within you to make that time for me. It hurting me like hell and its getting unbearable."
Quote: I think he's pretty confident by now that I'm not going anywhere...I mean after all these years why should he suddenly take an active role in the r?
Combine the above statement, with taking off with the kids unannouced even for a weekend, may be enough to shake his confidence.
So there you have it ... nothing new ... you know that I have always felt that you are going to have to come up with a way to stir the pot ... shake the ground he stands on ... to make him face himself in a mirror ... for him to face he's gonna have to make some changes in order for make the M become gratifying for the both of you if he wants to stay M to you.
You've been mulling this over in your head as to what will or will not work for quite sometime now. At some point, I beleive, you're just going to have to say ... to hell with it and just "Do It!" and rock his world.
OK, I'll get off the soapbox again ... for now ...
Quote: Hey there LL ... sorry I havn't come around more often, but I've basically have run out of new suggestions. no need to apologize, I know you've got a lot on your plate right now... One thing tho I found out recently is that sometimes in order to shake things up to trigger a different direction, we have to forgo our analyzing whether is will work to draw them closer or not and just take a chance. I'm just taking a chance at living my life for me and letting the rest just fall where it may.. Like a football play ... not matter how much you scratch it out on a chalkboard, it comes down to calling it at the right time and executing it to find out if it can be a big yardage maker. So with that thought, I'm not suggesting anything new, but pointing out areas where it might be worth just going for it and hope for the best...
Quote: grrr here too! I try not to go down that road but can't help but wonder what could compell h to talk to her every day on the phone or at some points visit her 3x a week for "lunch" and I can't even get one measily night a week out of him. but I digress...
Have you ever mentioned to him point blank, "What frustrates me the most about our M is how you have demonstrated if someone matter enough to you ... you can find time to spend 3x a week with them and yet having you spending that kind of time with me is what matters to me the most and you can't seem to find it within you to make that time for me. It hurting me like hell and its getting unbearable." I have several times and each time am met with a cold response of "that wasn't real" or "that was then" or "can't you just get over it" or some other crap that just screams to me that je doesn't get it! heck I've even gone so far as to point out why she (ow who was married) so easily got involved with him and that I could do the same.
Quote: I think he's pretty confident by now that I'm not going anywhere...I mean after all these years why should he suddenly take an active role in the r?
Combine the above statement, with taking off with the kids unannouced even for a weekend, may be enough to shake his confidence. I'd love to just take off but alas h holds the most of the money and I don't think it would fair to well in my favour to just skip off..would only foster anger..
So there you have it ... nothing new ... you know that I have always felt that you are going to have to come up with a way to stir the pot ... shake the ground he stands on ... to make him face himself in a mirror ... for him to face he's gonna have to make some changes in order for make the M become gratifying for the both of you if he wants to stay M to you.
You've been mulling this over in your head as to what will or will not work for quite sometime now. At some point, I beleive, you're just going to have to say ... to hell with it and just "Do It!" and rock his world. I'm thinking perhaps the best way to do just that is to pretend that he doesn't exhist...or at least only speak when spoken to...guess it'll be pretty damn quiet around here...
OK, I'll get off the soapbox again ... for now ... stay on your soapbox all you want..I appreciate it.
Was reading your updates of the past few months and I understand where you are. I know that you have put enormous effort in trying to turn this around, making progress here and there, but eventually it all falling back to the status quo and you have nothing to show for it. Take your time in deciding what to do next. When the time is right, you will feel peace with your decision, whatever that may be.
You are an incredible woman, so don't let your H lull you into thinking that you aren't because he can't appreciate you and honor the vows that he took with you. You have done the vast majority of work in your marriage and are entitled to some of the rewards from it, namely time and effort from your H for you and the kids.
don't know what decision I'll make if I ever make one if I haven't infact already made one...if that makes any sense.
I just don't like the way this r feels...like it doesn't really exist...like it isn't real...like it's just for...show?
I don't know anymore and as I've said numerous times...there were issues long before ow showed up that still haven't been resolved and I don't seem to have the energy or desire anymore to work on them...
I can't blame db for it but in a way I do...I learned not to have r talks and to act as if while h was away...that brought him home but how is that supposed to fix anything? sure it keeps the status quo and keeps a seemingly secure m but it in my opinion does nothing more than create a future waw.
SO, who's up for a little dream alalysis? just kidding but thought I'd share a dream I had the other night.
first off I'll say that I don't often think much about ow anymore...she's a classic waw and wouldn't be much competition for me in the real world so my thoughts are hey if h ever wants her again he can have her as long as he pays the bills and sets me free.
having said that...
dream....
h and I are at a function of some sort...don't know if it was a spa or what but there were people in lines with check points...who knows maybe it was a border control facility or something....
h and I are seperated...I made it through the gate and he was loli gaging so got held back...not being on the ball gets held behind...
through the crowd I hear laughter and see h walking and talking with some lil blonde (representing ow I'm sure)
they laugh and run off together...when I find them again (without searching mind you cause I at that point couldn't give a crap) she gives me attitude and h is backing her up...I proceed to pummel her...h all the while begging me not to cause she's pregnant...I say oops as she falls to the floor in a bloody mess (which I assume represented the loss of said preg)
end dream.
I think I've spent too much time reading the infidelity board
but then again the dream does have some things to say...
I think ow is an oblivious little idiot (and not just because she was the ow) a simpleton of little mind.
In some ways I think h is an oblivious idiot (and not just becuase he had an a)
I see h as incapable (thus his being left behind and not able to get himself through the gate)
I'm sure in some ways I let these thoughts show to h thought I do my bes not to.
