Hi GBO and X - Thanks for the feedback and input The one about setting examples is a good one, and yes, the role reversal is a little counter intuitive, but I'm going to give it a shot
Went back to begining of this thread as I seemed to be feeling more content with progress back in late august than now. Just a little boost for myself - some positives:
+ we have had an offer on the flat - it is for a lot lower than we are asking for, but we may have to accept reality of a depressed market in these parts. it will be good to put this 'bad experience' behind us and move on
++ NG seems to want to spend even whole working days at home so we are together (actually I'm going to call time on this and head in to the office tomorrow, just need some space, you know)
+++ my time with friends is getting more fun. I keep wondering why I let myself drift away from such wonderful people... But, just looking forward
++++ have an appointment in a couple of weeks to get them cavities fixed. It is a big drama with me (and my brother) as we need antibiotics before any dental work - we seem to have some genetic exposure to infections
not so good - NG and I had one of those rare chat sessions just now, I asked him how he was doing and his response was that this was the longest without contact with OW, and that she was probably having a hard time. That she had always said that he was her true love and that even without contact she would continue to have those feelings. He is feeling that he was brutal with that final email. ugh. I should not ask, but he seems to still have all her numbers in his cell memory, and appears to keep looking at emails to/from her - this is not snooping you guys - things are out in the open. So I'm in a bit of a quandry - give him an outlet to chat and take on more hurt, or do my own thing, and let him find a way to fix himself (which may include reconnection with OW?)
In reading back through your thread I found this little item that really hit me over the head.
Also, I learned not to take the first thing he says about a subject at face value. He has said so many things that are being denied now It takes a while to sift through the claims that are being made consistently - these are the more reliable ones.
This is one lesson that I just can't seem to learn. I am a HUGE word person. My mom was an English teacher, my dad owned an advertising agency so I grew up in a word environment, if that makes any sense. My LL is obviously words of affirmation. And I am ALWAYS a woman of my word.
But my prob is that I expect others to always mean what they say. My H says "I want a D" and I believe him, but he doesn't mean it apparently.
So all that to say that what you said really hit home for me today, this crappy Monday. I need to take myself and H a little less seriously in the "word" dept. I can stop getting myself all worked up in a tizzy when he doesn't say the right things or when what he says makes no sense, or blames me for something that is obv NOT my issue.
Pam
PS. I have a confession to make when I first started reading your thread, prob in June or so I used to think that NG was new guy, a replacement for your H or something. Duh, it took me a while to figure out that he was nice, not new.
not so good - NG and I had one of those rare chat sessions just now, I asked him how he was doing and his response was that this was the longest without contact with OW, and that she was probably having a hard time. That she had always said that he was her true love and that even without contact she would continue to have those feelings. He is feeling that he was brutal with that final email. ugh. I should not ask, but he seems to still have all her numbers in his cell memory, and appears to keep looking at emails to/from her - this is not snooping you guys - things are out in the open. So I'm in a bit of a quandry - give him an outlet to chat and take on more hurt, or do my own thing, and let him find a way to fix himself (which may include reconnection with OW?)
Hey there, Slowly. Still on the rollercoaster but it looks like it is only on those last little dips before it stops altogether.
How about this:
Validate his feelings. Let him know that you can see how compassionate he is and then, let him know that if he really cares about her feelings, he will realize how important it is FOR HER, to get a clear message from him.
If he backtracks on his previous message he is really opening an aold wound for her. SHe needs to understand that it is over so that she can move on. If he backtracks she will never believe that it is over and she will be caught in limbo land forever.
Quote: She needs to understand that it is over so that she can move on. If he backtracks she will never believe that it is over and she will be caught in limbo land forever.
How I wish I had seen this a few hours ago!!! I was trying to get that exact point across to my H. I just didn't have your words!! Thank you!!!
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
Hi Pam - Yeah, I keep having to remind myself not to believe everything that NG says, and yes, it is so hard when for 20 years of R he has been entirely truthful and trustworthy. I don't think I will ever believe him the way I used to, and that may not be a bad thing. Earlier in this thread Pen had written about not completely trusting anyone else, as after all we are all human. Hope you are well today. Slowly
The next time this subject gets hacked to pieces, I will validate and the rest. Today, it seemslike we are back to the easygoing loving basis that is our norm. I'm certainly not planning to disrupt that
I like your analogy about us being on the little dips before the ride stops - I certainly hope so. This has been exhausting, not just for me, but I'm sure for NG too. I am a wee bit concerned about him though, this morning I took off to work, and not 2 hours later he popped by my office to have coffee. He seems to have shut himself off his own colleagues - anyone know how to spot signs of mild depression?
I'm slowly getting here to post! But I haven't forgotten you.
I like Maya's suggestion. In fact, I have a new spin on that same suggestion for you.
WHAT IF....
NG had lost his mother recently? Would you be more inclined to demonstrate compassion toward him? Chances are, you wouldn't be engaging in self talk that said silently, "Come on, NG! When are you going to get over this and start thinking about me?"
I realize that OW and his mother are 2 different people in 2 different stratospheres. BUT he is grieving a loss. We may not agree with it, or even understand it... but if you can see things from this vantage point, he will one day get through the fog and be ready to put that behind him.
And from what I see here, he's making an effort to do just that. Remember your moniker, sweetie! It sounds like his is just "SLOWER".
Cheers to you on a cold day here in Colorado!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: Validate his feelings. Let him know that you can see how compassionate he is and then, let him know that if he really cares about her feelings, he will realize how important it is FOR HER, to get a clear message from him.
If he backtracks on his previous message he is really opening an aold wound for her. SHe needs to understand that it is over so that she can move on. If he backtracks she will never believe that it is over and she will be caught in limbo land forever.
This just really struck a chord with me...H says he's trying to get rid of his OW, but she won't leave him alone. He has told her to move on with her life, to find someone else, told me that he will not talk to her for two or three days (duhh), is mean to her and she just won't leave him alone. My H thinks and tells OW he is only home for our S. Now if I were the OW why would I quit pursuing when it's very clear to her that H is only home for our S! My H needs to tell her "I'm home to work on my marriage PERIOD!" and then let OW go in word and action, so that she can move on with her life.
OW is my H's safety net for now as my H is OW's safety net (she never fully grieved and got over the death of her H and to have to face that and the fact that she almost ruined another's marriage--rumor is she's looking pretty hagard these days too). My H is still not sure what he wants to do if he's able to face himself and the consequences of all his actions. If he gives up OW cold turkey, he will HAVE to FACE himself..I can't imagine the terror H must feel. So for now, when he starts feeling, starts thinking and looking at himself and the DAMAGE, he runs.
Just to chime in here for a second because this is all striking a chord for me here too.
Way back in November of 03 (in my pre-dbing days) I went with H to Brazil, thinking that he and OW were finished and finding out that they were NOT. They supposedly broke up while I was there, and H was just simply inconsolable, sobbing hysterically at night time, saying that he felt OW's pain and was literally sick to his stomach.
But all the while there was sort of this undercurrent of "I have to help OW get over her pain, because I helped cause it." He seemed like he felt responsible to be her comforter, to help her get over him if that makes any sense. He was even blubbering one time because he left behind a parting gift that she gave him, saying that he was a bad person for leaving it at her apt.
I don't think I ever even had a clue that he would truly be grieving OW, after all, to me she was just a b****, a w****, a home wrecker, not worthy of a second thought. But obviously in H's book, she was way more than all that.
And for H she fulfilled a very important need. He was a stranger in a strange land, living for weeks at a time in a 3rd world country where he didn't speak the language. Faced with huge business pressures, away from his family, he turned to OW for companinionship, language help, and the rest is history.
I am sure that one of the looming ?'s in H's mind, is if I give up OW how am I going to manage in Brazil w/o her? He still has to spend weeks at a time there, still has huge business pressures, still speaks only minimal Portuguese (don't suggest learning it, it won't happen, trust me) still faces the prospect of lonely nights with no one to talk to.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that if H ever does decide to end his A, I need to suggest for both their sakes that it should be a clean break. This I will always love you and wait for me in case it doesn't work out with my wife crap isn't gonna help. That if he really does care about her he shouldn't string her along any more.
Right now though I kinda feel like the shoe is on the other foot. Like I am the one who is being strung along left in limboland while he figures out if his R with OW is gonna work.
I feel so blessed to have so much empathy, guidance and good humour supporting me here - thanks so much, you guys
Betsey - whoa - what a powerful picture you paint with the 'what if it was his mum' - and yes, absolutely I will have more compassion. Your message has hit home. It is hard to acknowledge that he needs to grieve, but I can give him the space, and sure, the compassion. And believe it or not, there are more similarities between his mum and OW than you would think. His mother too would prefer NG and I were no longer together, and 22 years on she is still trying to drive us apart. NOT that she would approve of OW, she just wants her only son all to herself
I have just come back from dropping him off at the airport, he is off on a 3 day business trip. The guy was miserable, kept texting ILYs as he was boarding the flight. I can see him now primarily struggling to come to terms with what he has done. In his words, his actions impacted our lives, and looking back now there was no point to it. He does tend to wallow in things, so Betsey, you are right in that he is going to be SLOWER at this.
His preferred mode of getting support? Just that I am there for him, do not talk about this issue, and keep distracting him. My friends have become a lifeline for him, he seems to be so interested in what makes them tick. Its like he finds it easier to explore what is going on with us by referencing other folks. And, he really does not seem to have ANY friends of his own Some work colleagues, but no one other than me who he just hangs with. Another reason for OW, perhaps? Who knows...
The one about setting examples is a good one, and yes, the role reversal is a little counter intuitive, but I'm going to give it a shot 
when I first started reading your thread, prob in June or so I used to think that NG was new guy, a replacement for your H or something. Duh, it took me a while to figure out that he was nice, not new. 
Some work colleagues, but no one other than me who he just hangs with. Another reason for OW, perhaps? Who knows...