Slowly, you’re talking to someone married to the king of lies. I know how much that hurts, how maddening and just plain FRUSTRATING that can be. Believe me, I know.
Can you identify why your H lies? Is it to avoid conflict? Is it to make himself look better? What is the underlying reason that he chooses to say something that is dishonest?
Then, how can you make it safe for him to trust you with this honesty?
I haven’t read much into your sitch, but have you tried asking for what you’d like? If you have, how? For instance, “H, I really miss our morning chats on IM. When you asked how I was, I felt very special. Could we start doing that again, once in a while?” or “I’m really struggling with the bad memories right now. Could we go away for a weekend and create some great memories to overshadow the negative ones in my mind? I would really appreciate that.” Something like that might make him feel that he can make you feel good, not just bad.
It does seem that he’s struggling through some guilt, and this seems to trigger his defense mechanisms – so I’d be careful about what you ask for and how. You don’t want it to seem like a guilt trip.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Boy your pen-name really fits what needs to continue for all of us here in BB-land! I just skimmed your post and kind of caught up....we are in a very similiar place with our Hs. I really liked what Meredith had to say on her last post
Quote: but have you tried asking for what you’d like? If you have, how? For instance, “H, I really miss our morning chats on IM. When you asked how I was, I felt very special. Could we start doing that again, once in a while?” or “I’m really struggling with the bad memories right now. Could we go away for a weekend and create some great memories to overshadow the negative ones in my mind? I would really appreciate that.” Something like that might make him feel that he can make you feel good, not just bad.
Just gently and postively asking for snippits of what you want....I asked H for more affection...like when we were cuddling more in bed while on vac....I said.."I really like this...and missed it." That's all, he didn't need to respond....but now when I initiate the cuddling...he's right there. And he has even started initiating it more....like he used to in the good ole days.
Quote: It does seem that he’s struggling through some guilt, and this seems to trigger his defense mechanisms – so I’d be careful about what you ask for and how. You don’t want it to seem like a guilt trip.
Quote: I know...FOR SURE...that this is where my H is at....this helped me so much. Thanks Meredith!!! And you don't even know me!
Take care SLOWLY....thanks for your support on my thread.
Quote: Since the bomb in October, he would make it a point to ask me in the morning, usually via IM, how I was. It was the usual opening of our R talks, I did not take him up on it everyday, but when necessary it was there. Since the termination email, he has not once opened up to inquire about me And his general posture has been of not wanting to discuss much. It is a month now, so I guess I'm wondering where this is going.
Well Meredith & Mooka covered this pretty well, so at the risk of beating a dead horse, I want to try a slightly different angle...
Somewhere here on "Piecing" is a thread JJ started about rituals. Probably without even being aware of it, NG started a ritual that help bond you closer together by asking each morning how you were doing ... and now he has taken it away ... and now you are not feeling as close because of it.
Like Meredith says ... ask him for what you want ... but don't directly ask him as there would be a good chance of the request making him feel uncomfortable as to where it may lead and thereby placing a preceived pressure on him.
Approach the topic by not asking, but in words of affirmation about how much better that simple question made you feel about each day and how you miss it since he has stopped. Remember to express yourself in "I" statements and not to phrase anything in question form. Just let him know how you feel about it, but leave it up to him to make the choice of starting the ritual again. It also lets him know how he was doing something you felt was good in building a better R and makes him aware that you are paying attention the good things he's doing. So if he chooses to start asking again its not only because you wish it, but because he wants to as well and thereby eliminates any uncomfortable feelings and any sense of pressure that may accompany them.
Of course, it may help to point out that each time he asks, you won't spew negative vibes, but that you would like to have the oppurtunity to sense the pleasure in just returning a smile and letting him know that things are good when they are.
Keep working to build those positive vibes. You can never have enough tso hat you can rest on your laurels.
Meredith, Mooka, KAW, Betsey, GBO, Pattie - everyone - you guys are just the BEST - I am so grateful I stumbled across this board. This is yet another of those dead ends I was driving myself into, and you guys have just turned it around. You have identified several things that I really need to get a grip on BEFORE I can tackle NG.
Quote: Can you identify why your H lies? Is it to avoid conflict? Is it to make himself look better? Then, how can you make it safe for him to trust you with this honesty?
I think he lies for numerous reasons. Once he started lying to me, I think he found it a slippery slope that he could not get off - to hide the first lie, he needed to continue. Why did he start - well, I guess about a year ago, when he decided to pursue a relationship with OW, but to this day, insists, he did not want anything between us to change - so I guess the root lies in wanting to cake eat. Deception to avoid me walking out.
Then, he dropped the bomb last October, after about 6 weeks of me getting uneasy about changes in his behaviour. Even then, he claimed an EA when in fact as I discovered in June this year, it was already a PA. Many of his subsequent lies were to make the half-truth more palatable so I would not walk out. I guess I still have a hard time with this - on the one hand he was claiming to have 'come clean' but the manner in which he did so - with partial stories - really deprived me of the opportunity to make a truly informed decision. His rationale - to minimise hurt to me, and to stop me from walking out.
I now see him with our mutual friends and he seems to have slipped into a new mode of convenient and expedient exagerration, deception by omission - all these were not present in NG 15 months ago, so I'm kind of wondering if this is a lifetime habit change
Your thoughts on how to ask for what I want are just great - now I have to sit down and figure out what I really want. I guess for the past month I have been more introspective, and am finding that I have been shortchanging myself in many aspects. I want to change this balance. NG should not consume all my time. So, as Betsey so aptly put it, I am going back to the drawing board, and this time, it is for me.
Slowly, focusing on you is good. I second that motion!
On lies--in otherwise good, non-pathological people, I assume it occurs out of some kind of gut-eating fear. I mean, we've all lied at one point or other right? How do we feel at that moment, besides guilty of course? Fear of what is the question....and of course NG's lies were in a context that requires a high level of trust, so they were not run of the mill..... Ultimately the question for NG himself to figure out how to live with his fears, overcome them, change what causes them, whatever.
I was taught, and have come to appreciate, how important honesty is in any part of our lives. When I feel an urge to dissemble, omit, avoid, or outright lie....for reasons other than kindness--I'm not talking about unnecessary slams on other people.....I try to ask myself, What am I afraid of? I hope NG will be able to face these some day. But of course this is not your job. Focusing on you is very good.
Hi GBO - Yeah, he has a lot of fears and is currently choosing to deal with them by manipulating me/the situation. Take for example tonight. Friday nights are our normal nights out, hang out with friends, at a pub just unwind and get ready for the weekend. We were both home by mid-afternoon, had some tea and settled down to work. Come 7 pm, and I'm asking NG if he is ready to hit the road. He tells me he's cried off on 'our' behalf because he has a conference call at 9 pm and lots to prepare for it. I say 'oh, maybe I can leave you in peace and hang out with my GFs" and he goes, 'don't you want to have dinner with me (translated, aren't you going to get dinner for me)'
Now, I know I was both mad and upset that my Friday evening had been hijacked is such a high handed manner. I also know that this is new behaviour for NG, and that we need to get to the bottom of it. He was definitely stressed out with work, and I figured a showdown on considerate behaviour was the last thing he needed. So, seeing that I needed to eat too, I tossed a salad, we chowed down and spent the evening at home in surface peace, but for me at least, a great deal of confusion and some anger underneath the calm.
Wow, Slowly, you held your immediate reaction in check to see the larger picture--good for you. This wouldn't fly for the long term, of course.....a perfectly reasonable response would have been to say, well, I'm going out but you'll find such and such in the fridge....and leave it at that. But I think you are right that this was not the moment.
I'm really glad you can vent here because that was inconsiderate. I'd hate to be asked to cook if I were planning an evening out!
Hi - This is the first Monday in a looong time that I have not been dreading. Because NG made it a point to tell me that he plans to work from home, not 6 feet away from me. I do think this is his way of re-building confidence.
We are still not completely there, little things set me off, as I'm sure they do him. Take for example dinner on Saturday night. We decided to have some dead cow at a fairly swanky place, I got changed but he comes along in his usual weekend gear. OK, I kinda let that pass, though mentally note the lack of effort. We stroll to the restaurant and he just walks in, leaving the door slamming in my face. Hmmm. This is not new for NG, and I gave up making a deal of it a long time ago. But I KNOW he is capable of better manners, because it was one of the examples OW gave me as to why she enjoyed being with him, his charming ways, holding doors etc. So of course, it puts me right off my meal, and he sees it. We brave on, and try to both act as if.
We are really beyond the big issues I think. It is these little things that I don't seem to have such a good handle on. Not earth shattering, but just getting stuck too often for comfort.
OH Slowly, I have the same issue....H not dressing nicely (when he *can*) seems like a way of saying, I'm not going to make an effort for you....same with tardiness, same with not holding doors, pulling out chairs, helping with coats, etc. It's the little things that add up. I have to say, mea culpa: I think I stopped doing the little things for him for awhile in the M too. But one thing I couldn't be (thanks, Ma) is uncivil, e.g. not holding a door for him if I went in first! But I know that he, like NG with you, would do that to me.
And, of course, the real kicker being the special attention, special conversation, etc. lavished on OW . I guess what I worry about is, will that ever happen to us again, or are we the fortunate ones that get the angst and anger and fear but not the good stuff? Or is it that we don't make space for them to do this stuff for us? Are we somehow unapproachable in that way and how do we change it? Are we too competent, angry, complaining, etc and not appreciate enough?
All that vented, I'm told that in six months to a year it can be much, much better. Maybe someone out there has experience with that?
I cannot speak from experience here, but I have a few thoughts.
There are small things he is not doing for you. Have you tried doing those things for him, teach by example? IE. open a door and hold it for him.. little things. It may seem like odd role reversal, but if you do these things with joy, he may pick up on their importance to you.
Another thing is try real hard to "catch" him doing some of these small things, and richly reward him.. if he happens to hold a door for you, put on your biggest smile and say "thank you" joyusly! If he arrives somewhere on time, thank him for being considerate and arriving on time. Do not do it sarcastically, make sure it is with joy.
These are lessons I learned from dealing with my hard-to-handle kids.. and in many ways our Ss are kids again. They need to remember what is important, and we are the ones working on it, so we must be the leaders, purely by example.
Hang in there, you are doing very well. Dont let the little things throw you, focus on your overall - it is going very well! Remember how far you have come.
X Love, confidence, trust, and patience. Most Recent Thread
We brave on, and try to both act as if. 
. I guess what I worry about is, will that ever happen to us again, or are we the fortunate ones that get the angst and anger and fear but not the good stuff? Or is it that we don't make space for them to do this stuff for us? Are we somehow unapproachable in that way and how do we change it? Are we too competent, angry, complaining, etc and not appreciate enough?