Happy Effin' Birthday to Me.

[honeypot]

WB,
The only thing I can see that you may want to try (that you already haven't) is to keep VOICING what you want.

I personally believe--and I could be wrong--that both you and HD could have much better results with the SSM and PM principles if you would speak up more. I think that your W knows that what she is offering is utter crap and she is waiting for someone to call her on it. When you don't, she loses respect for you..on one hand you SAY you want more sex with her, but you are unwilling to take a stand to get it.

I know you have taken a stand, but I can only recount what has transpired in my own situation and that is this: I have to KEEP taking a stand, sometimes as often as once per week, in order to get him to see that I am serious. I simply cannot say it once or twice a month and then drop it and hope he remembers. He will not.

He needs frequent reminders and while I am not threatening to leave the marriage (personally I don't believe that you have to, in order to be effective) I am making it perfectly clear that his efforts of late have left me unsatisfied.

It causes a good bit of conflict in my marriage, that is true. I am lucky in that I am the wife and my husband gets over this conflict in a lightning fast manner. Many women are resentful (I struggle with this also...gee aint I a peach to be married to!:) and that is a whole other obstacle to work around.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I think the idea is to bring things to the point where your W's either say, "Okay FINE I will start trying to meet your needs" or "I can't take this anymore, I am not willing to even try and if you want to leave, you'll have to".
It is a huge gamble and I really can't blame you for not taking it so far.
I know that I thought my husband would choose me but I wasn't at ALL sure.

Good luck to you and all I can say is that the conflict was soooo worth it. Even if I had to choose between conflict filled weeks and the way things were before, I would choose the conflict hands down every single time. At least that is SOME sign of emotion and passion and an indicator that we still mean something to each other, kwim?

Take care,
HP

[NOPkins]

HD said:
----------------
Mum's the word.
----------------

Okay.

So, don't bother answering my other post. No need.

If I recall correctly, this is your second marriage. Statistically, 50% of second marriages fail around the 8 year mark.

If you can not manage basic honesty with your wife, then I sincerely doubt that your marriage has a chance.

I am not trying to berate you or be mean. I AM, being honest.

I wish you all the best.
-NOPkins-

[Bube]

HP,

I have a good friend and shooting buddy who also happens to be my barber. He told me a story that your post brought to mind.

He had a regular customer who was never satisfied with anything. He constantly b*tched about the service, the price, the wait time, and mostly, about the haircuts he was getting. He was always complaining that the haircuts were crappy, that he could do a better job cutting his own hair in the mirror, etc., etc., etc. Well one day my friend just wasn't in the mood. Joe Customer came in the door and started right in complaining about the last haircut he had gotten. My friend lit into him. He told Joe that he was tired of listening to him b*tch and that if he didn't like the haircuts, then he was welcome to take his business elsewhere. Joe smiled real big, said, "I wondered how long you were going to take it", and became one of his most friendly (and favorite) customers - not to mention a good tipper.

I can't imagine anybody intentionally doing something like that in their M, but do you suppose...

Wildebube

[honeypot]

WB,
Naw I don't think my H was sadistic and I don't believe it of your wife.
What I was suggesting was that this is SO hard for them to overcome (what behavioral change isn't right!) that nothing less than a good supply of conflict will propel them to take you seriously.

That is, if she hears you talking about how you need sex, but then you put up with sexless weeks and "teasing" behavior on her part, then how bad can you really want it?

My H simply would not and could not believe what I said until I kept on saying it, over and over and indicating to him how important it was to me. And, like I said, me saying it once in a while did not do the trick. Now that I've said it frequently for several years, he seems to be coming around. He will still sometimes say, Man you really must NEED this huh?!? as if he just can't believe that what I am telling him is true.

So I don't believe that he was being sadistic, he just cannot comprehend the driving force in my body and mind that calls out for sex. He must experience it in a completely different way, I suppose. This allows him to forget about it or justify his behavior in ignoring me and my attempts. At that point, I HAVE to confront him...I can do it gently or non-gently but I have learned that saying nothing and hoping for the best does not work for us.

Honey

[Bube]

HP,

You struck a chord there. You know that things have been better of late and that I haven't been able to figure out anything that I've been doing differently to cause the change. But I think you just did. I've mentioned it MUCH more frequently than I ever have before. I've kept hammering away at it. W shies away from serious convos, so I've been keeping it light and injecting humor whenever I can - but I've been keeping it on the table.

Wildebube

[barneyfife]

HD,

Happy Belated B'day, dude! Sorry it was a "kinda crappy" to "real crappy" day for you.

I think it's very simple, however. Some B'day candles are for celebration, warm feelings, and decoration. Then there are trick candles that are for the benefit of the "cake handlers" at the expense of the B'day boy. They look the same, but one "blows" and the other doesn't. Since your W didn't "blow" on your B'day, she's obviously the trick variety.

Mike -

[MadFrog]

belated reply to Corri and Mojo (and sorry to HD for a thread hi-jack):

thanks for spelling it out for me Corri. I now fully understand what you mean. And this also helps me better understand some of what the PM book was talking about. thanks a lot.
I am currently trying to determine specifically what I need to be happy. and what currently makes me unhappy in our marriage. It's not just the sex thing, but that is the relevant part for this forum.
The reason I have decided to wait some time before drawing the line is that my wife IS trying to "fix" it. She is aware of the problem (if not of the extent of it) and has seen a doctor. No help there so far (even with testosterone shots) and she has started taking avlimil. Since that herbal suplement takes some weeks to start working, I figured that i would give it a chance.
If that still doesn't work, we will then have to have a long heartfelt conversation about the whole thing. She has told me that she still loves me but just has no desire whatsoever. Once all the physiological solutions have been exhausted, we'll have to see if maybe counseling could help us find another cause.

In the mean time, and after thinking about what i've learned on this board (I've also ordered the DR book) I have determined that there are several things that I have not done, or stopped doing:

1- I do not express my wants. I usually go with what my wife wants and then resent her for it. not healthy. I need to express myself in affirmations instead of questions (not asking for permission to do stuff for example)

2- I don't immediately tell her when she does someting to piss me off (mostly because these days just about everyting she does pisses me off!! ). I need to pick the biggies and let her know it ain't right

3- I have stopped trying to initiate sex or even casual affectionate gestures. I have asked for both, but that's not the right way to do it. So I need to start initiating both of those things and get ready to be rejected - and still keep trying.

thanks for the help so far.

HD: I admire the fact that you are stil working so hard on your marriage. The main motivation for me is my kids. I think that if I didn't have any, I would have given up already. Whatever that says about me.

[MJontheMend]

MF,

Since your W is motivated and feels like it is a physical problem, here is an odd technique I read about that might work.

Your wife should lie flat on a bed and relax. Then she should start kicking her legs up and down so the flat of the back of her leg hits the bed. She should do it quicker and quicker and relax her shoulders so that her head bounces freely.She should breath freely and deeply as she does this. Theoretically, this will increase oxygen/blood flow to the pelvic area and create a mild buzz of desire.

[MadFrog]

Mojo: that is an odd technique indeed. it brings a smile to my face just trying to picture it - as a matter of fact it seems oddly like something we used to do, back in the good ol' days... . I can't imagine she would be willing to try, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.