Quote: Corri: I understand what you are saying, but I still think that the bottom line is that someone, or both, has to change in order to find the "third" solution (not divorce, and not celibacy)
Correct. And since you cannot 'make' your spouse do anything, that leaves you.
Quote: By that I mean that people's expectations have to change. HD needs to expect less sex, and his wife should expect more. That sums it up? Or did I miss the point again?
Many things can change. Certainly this is a possibility. If you look back through HD's posts, you will see he attempted this, and it didn't really work... and the reason it did not work was because it was only a surface change, a mask, for this was only a pretention in order to 'get' what he really wanted.
Now if HD really wanted to become celibate because this is what he wanted for himself, sex, or lack thereof, is no longer an issue. But this was not the case.
I have no idea what his wife should do, because I don't know how important her marriage is to her. If her not having sex is more important to her than creating a happy marriage, the only way HD is going to know that is by drawing his line in the sand. She has two choices at this point. She can either change, or she can watch the marriage fall apart.
What I am saying is figure out the non-negotiables in what you need to make you happy and OWN it. One possible way to present this to your spouse is as follows:
I need x,y,z in my life in order to be happy. In the context of our marriage it means q,r,s. I very much want to work with you to arrive at that place. If you are unwilling to do so, so be it, I don't want to force you. If this is the case, however, then I will go as long as I can in honoring our marriage vows, but I cannot say how long that might be.
Yes, I believe at some point you have to ask yourself if your marriage is worth more than your happiness. But there is no way to know this until you decide and OWN what it is you need to be happy. You cannot BE happy until you know what it is you NEED to be happy, and STATE it. Likewise, your spouse cannot possibly DO ANYTHING whatsoever in assisting in this process, or not, until you make such a declaration.
Perhaps NOPkins can explain in better in a guy way. But I think you will find that for those who have navigated their way through this labrynth, it has boiled down to this as THE crucible.
