Corri, I may (must) be misunderstanding your post. I agree that I am responsible for my own hapiness. However, when in a comitted relationship, the actions for my partner affect me. If I am not happy about one of my partner's actions, tell my partner as such and yet the action (or lack of action ) keeps occuring - then what? The only solution then is to get rid of the relationship. Isn't it? The only other way I can think of is to indeed change yourself so that the action in question doesn't make you unhappy anymore. Sometimes that's just not possible, especially if that action violates your own sense of morals/ethics, etc.
Sorry that I am not as eloquent as some of ya'll. Hopefully ya got my meaning.
The differentiation song:
All I want to do
Is be more like me
And be less like you
Linkin Park
Quote: I thought about it some more and I realized that not only do I expect H to be kind and generous to me on my birthday; I expect it of him every single day. Otherwise, what does that say about what I think of myself?
I simply cannot bring myself to think that everything he does for me should be regarded as a gift and that there is never a time when expecting anything from your mate is acceptable.
Only you can decide if you are happy or not, and only you can decide what to do about it. Expectations merely project personal preference, and that's all they do.
Corri, I'm sorry, but this is all just a load of crap to me. And maybe it's JUST me, but why does he have to change, if he's already pretty comfortable with who he is, and others (at least we do) find him to be funny, kind, romantic (hey, I know I'm a GUY, but bear with me), a good father, honest, ethical human being who generally doesn't maim, rape or pillage?
Why CAN'T it be as simple as "Baby, I love you, I adore you and would do anything in the WORLD for you; shut up and KISS me, make love to me, and please be the woman I married in the first place!"?
Choc., who still really DOES think it oughta be that simple
CE: I have come to start believing that with women, NOTHING can be that simple. Sorry if this is coming out as a sexist comment, it is really not meant to be. men/women = two different animals. I guess it keeps it interesting.
The differentiation song:
All I want to do
Is be more like me
And be less like you
Linkin Park
He doesn't. He can stay exactly as he is. That's his choice.
Quote: Why CAN'T it be as simple as "Baby, I love you, I adore you and would do anything in the WORLD for you; shut up and KISS me, make love to me, and please be the woman I married in the first place!"?
I don't know.
Quote: Choc., who still really DOES think it oughta be that simple
Yeah. I'd be great if it were. But it isn't. So now what? Above is a wish. A non-thing. Your reality is different. So now what?
Quote: If sex is so necessary to you, go out and get it. Yet you hesitate to do so, because you do not like what that image of doing just that means to you.
I agree. That is why I vowed that I am going to have sex on my 40th birthday. I don't like the image of me being pathetic and sexless on my birthday more than I don't like the image of me telling my H that I am sure someone else will oblige as I head out the door. Of course, the fact that I am confident enough in my sexual identity to do this is what makes it less likely that I will actually have to do this.
I used to tutor older adults who hadn't completed high school in math. An odd thing I noticed was that it was hard to teach certain concepts to older students. For instance, I couldn't convince one woman that negative numbers existed. IMO in order to do PM, you have to do the sexual/emotional equivalent of subtracting a negative number to get a positive result. It's counter-intuitive unless you visualize yourself "undigging a hole".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: However, when in a comitted relationship, the actions for my partner affect me. If I am not happy about one of my partner's actions, tell my partner as such and yet the action (or lack of action ) keeps occuring - then what?
That's right. Then what? Who can you control? If the end goal is x, y, z, and your current actions are not getting you the desired result, then what?
Quote: The only solution then is to get rid of the relationship. Isn't it?
Is it? What you are saying here is, I am this way. I want my world to be a certain way. In order for my world to be a certain way, then you (my spouse) need to be this way [insert definition here]. Okay.
If the above statement is true, and you give your spouse the same freedom to make such a statement, and the two don't match, then what? Are you wrong? Is the spouse?
What choices do you have? What is more important? Being who you are, right now, as it, or getting what you want? Because right now, you know that you cannot have both -- being who you are at this minute AND having what you want. Your presence here proves it.
Ahhh... but if you can get your spouse to change and agree with you, you could in fact have both.... just wondering, is that working for you?
Actually, Corri, for millions of marriages, it really is (that simple) -- including our OWN marriages, awhile back.
But you're right, the choice is ours, and we have to decide where our own integrity line is drawn, and what we're willing to put up with and how hard we're willing to fight.
I didn't say it was EASY, I just think it's more SIMPLE than all of that gobbledigook. But that's just me -- actual milage may vary.
Corri: If I'm interpreting your words correctly (I think I am!) then Hairdoggie should not be worrying about whether his expectations are reasonable or unreasonable because they are his perception only.
But if his personal preferences are being dismissed as ridiculous, then his only choice is to decide what to do about it. So instead of commiserating with him on what a bitch his wife was on his birthday, we should be encouraging him to formulate a plan on how to deal with her. What he will say, what the consequences will be towards her if she chooses not to comply, how he will proceed in the event of A happening, or B happening, etc.
Dog, I don't know if this will help you or not, but WB suggested on another thread that having an exit strategy in mind (not necessarily something you are going to act on right away, if ever) is a good exercise to do. I concur with that. Once I figured out exactly what my steps would be in doing my part to repair this marriage--including what would happen if I had no cooperation--I felt a huge weight lift off me. I was no longer prisoner; I was in control of this ride too. Maybe something like that would help?
I know your W is a formidable woman and you have a lot of hesitation in talkin to her about this subject but she will continue to walk all over you until you do. It's almost as if she KNOWS she's fulla crap in regards to her views on sex but she will persist as long as there is no one to call her bluff. And all the while she is telling herself that this is REAL, it is REALITY, etc. Well ya know what. It isn't. There is no one that would support her view that having sex with your husband once or twice a year is in any way healthy or beneficial to the feminist movement or conducive to a good marriage. She is fooling herself.
Have you ever asked her a question as direct as this: "If it came down to working on our sex life or divorce, what would you choose?"
It seems to me that this is the fear that holds you back from really confronting her--that she would rather D than work with you. I don't blame you for being gunshy about bringing it up. I personally would be devastated at the thought of divorce and it would be a very strong deterrant in bringing it up.
I hope for a good weekend for you. Maybe the hand on the side was a conciliatory move...
PM philosophy reminds me of some parenting advice that I once read. The author made the point that the reason parents often have trouble with getting their children to behave is that the parent doesn't really care if the child behaves. If little Johnny is tearing up your magazines and you are just sitting on the couch yelling at him, little Johnny learns that if he can put up with a bit of yelling he can rip to his hearts content. Compare this to when little Johnny has a raging ear infection and needs to take his antibiotic. Any decent parent is going to get that antibiotic down the kid's throat no matter what, because it is too IMPORTANT of a matter to not take a tough stand with the child. If sex is important enough, you will do what you must to get it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
) keeps occuring - then what? The only solution then is to get rid of the relationship. Isn't it?
