Diving back into the ocean

[Underdog]

Merrick--You are certainly someone who likes to instigate!

KAW--What a beautiful post. I appreciate the sentiment you brought here, as it is one I endorse with great gusto. There is nothing in life that grounds me more than losing someone I love to death.

I'm waiting for the boys to start calling. It's been hard enough listening to the older boys cat call her and gaze at her tush at the pool. Her dad feels a heck of a lot more strongly about it! But she's lucky in one sense: my dad was a police officer, and he collects weapons (guns and swords now). I was lacking in the dating arena in high school, but my sister was not.

Every time some poor guy came over, he was cleaning his collection with love and longing. A friend of my sister's told us a few years ago that looking at his face as he caressed the barrels scared the daylights out of him!

Mr. Wonderful has all his hunting rifles at his dad's house in MT. Far far away from threatening the likes of the sissy boys around here!

I am at peace with the direction I'm heading. You're right: after 2 years of dealing with marital troubles and a good solid 18 months of employing the DB principles to these challenges, I'm tired.

I do know that I need to continue to utilize what I've learned along the way. That isn't something I want to forget. But I don't want to make every day a therapy day either, if you know what I mean.

(Those of you with special needs kids or know someone else who has one, this will make sense.) Sometimes you have to just BE and LIVE without trying so hard to get somewhere, meet goals or achieve progress.

I suspect that the disappearance of my inner struggles are obvious to Mr. W., and I also suspect it's why he's making a whole lot more effort to being my friend in ways that he used to be. And you know what? That's the guy I have missed for so long.

We've shared the last 15+ years of our lives together in some way, shape or form. He's the father to our terrific girls. And despite the past couple years, I have enjoyed being with him. I'm really looking forward to getting that R back on track, because I think it will really help D10 navigate through her anger issues.

I feel awfully fortunate to have at least some resemblance of the guy I married back in my daily picture. I just hope he figures out what it's going to take to make him happier. I'm also glad my heart is no longer dependent on him making those changes.

I feel good!

Time to go find D7... last report, she was sweeping my car with a big broom. D10 and friend took off to walk the dog (I'm dog sitting for my boss this weekend). I'd love to hop in the shower, but I'm afraid she will find my keys, start the ignition and take off! You laugh, but this kid watches everything I do with great enthusiasm and hope...

The last things the citizens of Metro Denver need is a crazy 7 year old behind the wheel of a SUV!

TTFN and good to see you back, KAW!

Betsey

[holdingon]

I suspect that the disappearance of my inner struggles are obvious to Mr. W., and I also suspect it's why he's making a whole lot more effort to being my friend in ways that he used to be. And you know what? That's the guy I have missed for so long.

I guess this is what "they" mean when they tell us to move on. Hopefully it does give the WA a bit more clarity.

I'm also glad my heart is no longer dependent on him making those changes.

Dropping the rope, letting go. I am beginning to really have moments of great peace because of this. They still startle me. When I'm laughing and feeling good I often stop in my tracks and think "what's going on?" It's still weird to me. I guess I've felt lousy for so long... but I'm "getting it" now, what detaching means, what getting a life means, what dropping the rope means. I, too, just need to BE and LIVE.

[love_endures4ever]

Hi Betsey,

I feel good!

You are good and bring me a lift everytime I read your posts. To be very honest you scared me when you decided to move on, to go for the D, thought maybe it was something I should be doing, that I was being a fool for waiting for my sitch to turn around, that I was weak. Then decided I was getting too involved in everyone else's sitches and thinking I should be doing everthing different.

So I'm taking a break from the BB, not sure if I'll be posting much about my sitch moving forward, but I'm so happy to hear things are well with you, with D10 and D7, children do keep us living our lives, keeps us growing and learning.

You're some kind of woman Betsey!!!

Cathy

P.S. Something about Colorado brings me peace, I feel I'm destined for your great state, not sure when or how, but I feel it's in my future.

[Underdog]

Cathy,

Thanks for stopping by. I hope your time away from the BB helps give you a sense of what you need to do to take care of yourself and your son.

When you make it out my way, let me know and we'll hook up. I love it here myself, though I've only been here 14+ years... this eastern girl considers the Centennial State home. It's a golfer's paradise (hint hint) and just plain wonderful for any outdoor activities. I hope you can make it!

While I'm glad you find my posts uplifting, I'm sorry you were affected by my decision. (((((Cathy))))) That's part of the reason I pulled back from posting my stuff on the BB for several weeks. I received lots of e-mail messages from posters who felt as though I had made a bad decision.

All I can tell you is that I knew that the timing of everything had to be an issue. I am a very intuitive person, and all my bells and whistles were telling me to pay close attention to what was happening on the side lines as Mr. Wonderful started uttering words about missing me. Incidentally, he still says those words to me and I am okay with them... because I miss him too.

The red flags were too big to ignore. That's when I had to really delve inward and figure out how I really felt. After all, my journey really started 2 years ago. I kept my eyes on the goal, and learned how to put aside my anxiety and doubt for the sake of healing my M. Once I really allowed myself to openly do this, with no thought as to anyone else but my own soul (for an abrupt departure from the norm), these things came out at me like monsters out of my bedroom closet at night.

Frankly, it frightened me too.

I think the reason some people were disappointed with me is because I've always worn a label that reads, "I'm Betsey, and I always do what other people think is right for me." I realized that I'm now grown up, and I deserve to choose things that are good for me, and to stop being a martyr for everyone else's sake.

My journey is really only limited to me, and not intended to persuade anyone else into making the decisions that I made. However, I suspect there are a few people here who felt it was time to examine their own hearts and souls because of the choice I made.

I would never call you a fool or say you are weak, Cathy. Your dynamic is best left to you to decide what is best for you and your son (and ultimately your H). I do have some experience with alcohol and drug addictions (not myself) and it is really doggone difficult to navigate. Chemical dependencies affect a large group of people, not just the person who is addicted.

And let me tell you, I logged enough time in Al-Anon to understand the concept of roles and how I put myself into dramas where I shouldn't even have been auditioning. I won't lie to you, because once I refused to play the roles everyone expected of me, I became the enemy. I was considered combative and hardened just because I refused to continue to allow my parents to play victims with my brother, and to enable my 36 year old brother to continue hurting us as a family with his horrid choices, behaviors and lies.

That being said, I feel compassion toward you and your circumstance. I would NEVER deem it appropriate to tell you to follow my lead. Now if you end up going down this path, I welcome your company. (We'll have a party of our own.)

I can promise you that allowing Mr. Wonderful to live a life separately from me doesn't feel like I've abandoned him at all. In fact, I feel as though being good friends is actually 99% likely. That is the guy I've missed for so long. And if he's happier, it can only trickle down to the rest of us--particularly my girls.

I still wake up in the morning and find myself feeling some sadness that I will never have my M back. But I keep remembering all those adages that have been thrown my way over the 2 years we've been emotionally and physically separated: I can no longer cling to the past to help me in the future. We are different people, and therefore, our decisions must be made to help us going forward, not to pay tribute to a past which got us where?

Anyway, I will say for sure that once I found myself with a little more control over decisions that affected me, I was able to rationalize this more.

What can possibly be negative about my outcome? He's still here for me on a daily basis, and we talk several times a day. He still does things for me around the house that are either tough or impossible for me. And he does them with a smile, particularly when I express gratitude for his generosity.

He's present for our girls. He's willing to work with me on scheduling, and except in the beginning days of our separation, has been very willing to give me time I need when I need it (without playing the martyr card). He gives me money when he thinks I need it. And when I ask for a little help (which I just did), he sighed and said to me, "Bets, all you need to do is ask. It's my job to take care of you guys."

That actually brings a tear to my eyes... because I'm really happy he feels that way. I know he feels love for me, Cathy. And I know this makes people sad that we won't be making this a marriage once again. But I don't want that anymore. I really just want to concentrate on myself for awhile. And to leave the past where it is and work harder toward making my future happier. I can do it with him too... just not in the context of having him home and not working on himself.

Quite honestly, he escapes his reality in alcohol as well. And my past is riddled with addictions in those I love. I really want to change that from here on out. Yes, D10 feels compelled to tell me that she thinks there has been little change in his drinking habit aside from the fact that he no longer drives under the influence. That at least is a good change from 2 years ago!

I pray you find peace in your journey as well. You have a lot of gumption and resolve, and I doubt I would have been able to be as positive and strong as you are knowing where my past has been. Alcohol addictions and codependency issues are just too big for me to deal with now... So you deserve a lot of praise for choosing a very tough road for the sake of your family.

My only thoughts are to make sure you're taking care of you. Your son needs a healthy mom, you know?

Take care, sweetie and have a great weekend.

Betsey

[wonder]

Sometimes you have to just BE and LIVE without trying so hard to get somewhere, meet goals or achieve progress.

A big AMEN to that, sister! OK... so there's my excuse for lounging on my deck in the (long lost) SUN for the rest of the afternoon.

I won't lie to you, because once I refused to play the roles everyone expected of me, I became the enemy. I was considered combative and hardened just because I refused to continue to allow my parents to play victims with my brother, and to enable my 36 year old brother to continue hurting us as a family with his horrid choices, behaviors and lies.

Yikes... you just described my H's family to a T. We can see the patterns-- can't stop them, but for sure can stop participating in them.

Cathy, your road is not an easy one. It's the one my mother walked as well. I know intimately how hard it is. You just have to just keep checking in honestly with yourself along the way and asking what is right for you and for your son-- those are the answers that matter.

have a great Sunday, ladies,
wonder

[Azure]

I think the reason some people were disappointed with me is because I've always worn a label that reads, "I'm Betsey, and I always do what other people think is right for me." I realized that I'm now grown up, and I deserve to choose things that are good for me, and to stop being a martyr for everyone else's sake.

Right on, Bets. I'm really proud of you!

[Underdog]

Greetings Wonder and Azure! Thanks so much for your input here--it's always welcome.

I'm happy to report that my week has begun on a good note. It started yesterday... I was able to be really productive, which always makes me tired but happy when I can begin my week on a hopeful note.

As I reported here yesterday, Mr. Wonderful and D7 came over bright and early. I was still in my PJs, filling out paperwork for D7's school and they seemed happy to see me. Mr. W. was all set to pull the remainder of the forsythia that I hacked down last weekend.

He gave me instructions on drilling anchors (my drill broke and I had to use his, which is higher tech than mine was) and while I installed curtain tie backs, he got ready with his chain and pickup truck to extract that root ball.

Our dentist neighbor came over and started to chuckle. He told Mr. Wonderful that the method he used was exactly how he pulls teeth...

After he finished, I took off for the grocery store. When I got back, D7 had eaten 4 donuts and had made a mess. I was putting groceries away and cleaning up when Mr. W. came into my line of sight and smiled and asked if I wanted to play a few games of cribbage. I said sure and told him to help himself to a beer.

We headed out to the patio, where I skunked him first game and beat him by 2 the second game (as luck would have it, pegging out gave me the win). What was nice about it? We were friends. AND even better, we took turns chasing D7 around. I had forgotten how doggone exhausting it is to be the only person who is around to do that. Every time we switched, we'd look at each other and laugh.

I picked up a very grumpy and tired D10. Hey, KAW, is your tween an attitude queen? I'm afraid that D10 has bouts of a real crappy and sullen attitude and I don't like it. Of course, I can remember that I felt the same way in 5th grade...

That being said, she was so excited about school today that she couldn't get to sleep last night. She woke up all smiles today! D7, on the other hand, did NOT want to get up. We're back to our normal routine!

The bus was late due to wheelchair issues with a kid from previous runs.... I had to laugh when the bus pulled up. I recognized the driver, as he did the summer school run last summer--he reminds me of Otto in The Simpsons! However, he's a really sweet guy and she was very excited to see the jump seat guy, who has ridden her route for 2 years now. I left the house with a waving D7 in the bus window... and a frantic D10 who was worried about being late today.

I'm glad that we're back on track to a more stable existence. Now I have to get used to having them with me all week again!

Have a good week, everyone!

Betsey

[JerryG]

Betsey, lost my whole post to you, not sure what happened? anyway so glad you of all people posted, I have been really torn and trying not to get my hopes up but it did seem like she extended the Olive Branch as you say?

I just have to go with it for now and operate under the assumption that even if we are only to be friends that that is the best thing for the kids in th elong run and any new R would begin with that so I will do my best to keep on track and not pressure her, I usually let her open the dialog and call or email first, I tested the water a little 2 days ago when I brought her the stuff from her Dad.

We were on her porch by ourselves on my way out to the truck and I took off my sunglasses and looked her right in th eye and said " You didn't want for me to try any harder did you?" she looked sad and said " no this is just something I need to do for me" then I said ok, gave her a big hug and whispered bye baby in her ear, turned around and walked away, she watched me intensely all the way back to the truck and as I pulled away, I got the thank you email the next morning?

She still confuses me and Ithink she still cares or she wouldn't offer up so much info in her emails to me?

On another note the kids are doin fine D15 is a sophomre and has lots of homework and S10 is in 5th grade learning what real homework is, they seem ok and it's good to be back closer to them now so I can see them a lot more. This may help change the dynamics if nothing else does?

You want I should come out and slap some sense into Mr. W ? how could a guy not fall for you, I never even met you and I think you are the greatest. Our S must be taking the same night course. Confuse a spouse 101

Thanks for replying Betsey, take care and I will bbe checking in from time to time. I really stopped posting so much because I though she may be reading them, seemed like she knew every move? I fear that she has your same keen sense so I don't try to do or say anything " ACT AS IF" if it ain't really true. She's too smart and intuitive, no fooling aloud.

Do you really think it's time to start saying exactly how I feel to her? I have been trying not to say ILY or showing too much clingy behavior and she took it for " not wanting me within 5 miles"? I am not too good of an actor sometimes?

[Underdog]

Jerry,

Your post on your own thread made my day today. I think it's a wonderful example of how time and effort can heal. I can just imagine how she might have felt when you whispered those words in her ear. Just maybe they will be the catalyst for her to really consider having you as a best friend... for now.

Yes, I think it's time for honesty and sharing. But I will put this caveat in motion: I think it would be wise if you would let her lead. Offer candor when she gives you an opportunity to clear up issues that are bothering her. Anything more is pursuit, and we want to see how this bridge gap can be closed, right?

It will be a great means of employing validation and support and all the DB principles you have learned thus far. Who knows where that will lead you?

Yes, I DO think she cares... but for your own sake, I would recommend just living in the moment and not trying to interpret anything she says with any meanings you might be wanting to apply. Let her tell you more. You just concentrate on being a friend. Something tells me you will get an A on that score.

Just live in the NOW, friend. Everything will take care of itself in its own due time. Keep up the amazing work. And I'll tell the vacationing Triple J to come visit you when he returns to his cyber world...

Big hugs, special friend.

Betsey

[Underdog]

Well, I finally had the big talk with Mr. Wonderful tonight. There have been some indicators that this discussion would take place soon, and true to form, he called me at my office from his cell phone on his way to the house after work.

I'm at a loss to remember exactly how the conversation played out, so I'll have to recap here to the best of my ability. Here goes!

He said he figured out that I had really made my decision a month or so ago as the pressure has really been off of him and he's felt at peace being with me. He asked me if I had noticed we had been able to be at ease with each other during this time frame? I said yes.

He told me he's been doing a lot of thinking over the summer, and for the life of him, can't figure out why he has been so unhappy. He let me know that he was ready to call our MC and begin his journey healing in IC because he trusted him and was a good listener.

That was music to my ears. Through a few sniffles I told him that all I really want for him is to heal and be happy, and that I'm prepared to make the break so that we can both move forward.

He asked if I thought a D was necessary? I asked him what he thought, and he told me candidly, "Bets, every time I think I might want to work on things with you, I vacillate back to feeling like it's not really possible. There are times when I am really doubtful that I have what you need. And I wonder if I'll ever be able to love you like that again."

I told him, "Well, I think that your thoughts on that are exactly why I think this path is necessary. I don't want any reconciliation work to interfere with your ability to heal. I can be your friend as you travel down that path, but I can only do that if my own happiness isn't tied to your progress. Does this make sense?"

He said, "Yes, actually it makes perfect sense. And I appreciate the fact that you are willing to let me do that. Sometimes I think I'm selfish for needing to put my happiness before the girls and yours. But the other part of me realizes if I'm not happy or putting myself in a position to make myself happier, I'm not helping you or the girls in the long run. I'm so sorry for hurting you all."

I let him know that I don't want him to hurt anymore. That the worst is behind us. That we could really concentrate on our friendship and cement our R so that the girls would not feel as though they had lost either one of us. He responded favorably and thanked me for my input.

He then volunteered some information. He finally realized that how he was raised had everything to do with his inability to share emotion with me, and said he really wanted to spend some time figuring out how his conflict avoidance came about. He mentioned his R with his mother...

I told him I'm reading a book for women (Women Who Love Too Much) that is actually something that he might benefit from reading because it discusses this issue. He seemed interested...

We discussed D10 and how she acts and what her emotions mean to both of us. He promised to start addressing this previously taboo subject with her when he can and mentioned that he will no longer skirt the issue when it arises. I let him know I would be grateful for his help.

We then went back to the topic of happiness. I apologized for all the years that I was unhappy and blamed him. I let him know that when I projected my anger on to him and the girls, I was really angry with myself. Angry for not taking better care of myself. Angry for not letting him know in a mature way that I was hurting and needing his attention. Angry that neither one of us had any answers and angry that we were both resentful of one another.

He was thoughtful and replied, "Yes, we were. And it makes me sad too. We had so much going on with D7 for so long that neither one of us was able to venture outside our own pain to think about the bigger picture. To your credit, when you brought it up, I couldn't deal with it."

I said, "That's why I can look back and feel compassion for both of us. We dealt with a very difficult situation the best we knew how. Nobody knew the hell we were going through, therefore, nobody could help. I know we should have done things differently, but the fact is, we did many, many things right.

But you know what? Last week, I was a little surprised that some of these emotions, which are primarily grief, surfaced with what D7 was going through. It was weird."

He commented, "Funny you say that, because I was thinking the same thing. I finally let myself feel some of the stuff I refused to deal with before. It was definitely uncomfortable."

By the time I got home from work, he and D7 were in the garage. They were both happy to see me. I had done all the dinner prep last night, so he had it ready by the time I got home. We all sat down at the dinner table and had a very peaceful time--well, as peaceful as dinner can possibly be with D7...

He handed me his part of D10's homework assignment, and I read it through. The last question of this questionnaire was "Is there something I need to know about your child?"

He wrote something along the lines of, "Her mom and I are separated, not divorced. Occasionally she has issues which may result in varying emotions which might seem unprovoked and inexplicable. Her mom and I are working hard to make sure that we address her concerns so that she can be the student she wants to be."

For some reason, that answer made me happy. I think not because of the message. But because he is finally seeing how this has played out for D10 and potentially for D7.

I did let him know that I'm not sorry about the path we have taken. That I'm ready to be his friend as he embarks on his own journey to fulfillment. He thanked me once again. I segued into another tangent to this mess...

I let him know that I consider my family still his and vice versa and let him know that my parents would like for all of us to come back to DC for Thanksgiving. He seemed a bit surprised so I continued, "I know it's your year to have the girls, but my folks are well aware that we need to take our own separate paths and nobody wants you to feel as though you are in the hot seat. Besides, my dad really misses you."

He got a little choked up and said it sounded lovely, but that he needed to check his work schedule to see how that was going to play out. He said he thinks he will decide to give D10 a shot at seeing that her parents CAN be friends for her sake. And I'm all for that. He likes my sister and BIL and my brother will be there too.

God, this makes me really sad, but at the same time, it really makes me happy. No wonder you guys think I'm confused! But I'm not! It's just the result of letting go and letting God. I'm pretty sure this is the path He wants us to take, because I feel at peace with everything so far.

It's not so scary to submit, you guys. It's scarier to resist. Because I know we're all going to be happier because of this.

Have a good night, all!

Betsey