I want you to realize that a great relationship requires a lot of effort. They normally don't just happen. Effort requires time.
I do think that in your case, a lot of effort on your part will be seen by your wife.
Whether or not you think she is paying attention, let her know what your goals for the relationship are, then start working on them. Be consistent. She will notice.
You may have told me already, but refresh my memory. Has your wife read TSSM or other relationship books? Also, I think there is one out called Surviving an Affair ( not sure). If you haven't already, you might consider purchasing several books and making them available to your wife.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I don't think of you as a ball buster or anything... really I don't. Keep bringing up opinions 'cause you're making me think.
I do hear what you're sayin' about great relationships, and I already know that I have the basis for one. You don't know all the "other things" that I do for my W and kids, but I'm a pretty decent family man "behind the scenes." Despite my outrageously poor choices with OW, I have made great efforts to close that chapter of our lives and move on.
Quote: Has your wife read TSSM or other relationship books? Also, I think there is one out called Surviving an Affair ( not sure). If you haven't already, you might consider purchasing several books and making them available to your wife.
I read TSSM earlier this summer. After bringing up our M and talking to my W about my concerns, I gave her TSSM book and told her that I really enjoyed it, thought she might too, and that it was important to me for us to ML more regularly. Well, she read the first 50-something pages almost right away. Since then (mid-June), the book has been sitting in her "book corner" in the kitchen. I don't think she has read any more.
If I purchase books and make them available to my W, I don't know what kind of reaction I will get. If it's similar to TSSM, though, I have a feeling that the books will just sit around unused. Actually, my W would probably hide the books so that visitors to our house would not see them and make assumptions about our M.
One of my W's "problems" in life is her low self-esteem. She has to build herself up and make herself look good to other people. She will tell other people the good things that are happening in life, but she will omit the bad things (or hide them completely so that others don't see them). Example: she used to smoke cigarettes - but she would never let her parents know about it. Example: she uses "I" and "me" and "my" when she talks to others about shared things/experiences with me (such as, "I took the kids to the park last week" when really we both did, or "my kitchen was just redone and it looks beautiful" instead of saying "our kitchen").
This low self-esteem leads to an interesting situation. Neither her parents nor mine know that our M is troubled. When I went about setting up marital counseling for us last April 2003, I had to make the appointments for during the work day (12-1PM or 1-2PM) so that the kids were in daycare. If I had made evening appointments, her parents would have found out about them because they would be the ones to watch the kids (most likely - her parents are great when it comes to taking one or both kids when we need to "get out" together alone). Then my W would have to play "20 Questions" with her mom about what was wrong, what happened, how come we were having trouble, etc. etc.
I really don't know where I'm going with this. I just wanted to explain more of my sitch to ya. I feel that my W would benefit from seeing a therapist by herself, to work out some of her issues outside of the M, but she has refused to consider it after I mention it. I feel that my M could benefit from seeing a MC who is pro-marriage and TSSM/PM-aware. I just don't know what to look into first.
I wimped out last night... I could have talked to W, but I didn't start anything. I couldn't think of the right way to start without it sounding like an attack. Instead, I was content with watching the nice looking women in bikinis on Fear Factor.
When we went to bed, we kinda snuggled against each other. That was it. I'm too horny for my own good.
I am at the point where I don't care if W likes me or not. I am initiating LM and hoping that she enjoys it. I bring up R issues when I need to, and she responds with rhetorical questions.
You say you bring up R issues when you need to. I wonder what that means? I sometimes walk around wondering when H will bring up one of his 'issues', and end up avoiding him because of it.
I know you help out around the house, etc. but it also sounds like you're holding a lot of resentment. I don't think it's about getting to where you 'don't care', but that you care enough about yourself that you call the shots, rather than worrying about what your W thinks or feels.
I find when I think about how H (or someone else) feels, I don't take into account my own feelings, and I usually end up feeling resentment, or at least wondering what I've gotten myself into. It's sort of like when you're on an airplane, and they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first before helping anyone else.
If you take care of yourself first, you'll be able to help the others around you much better.
You probably will have to wait a while 'till W feels comfortable opening up to you. If during that time you are a strong, caring person who knows what he wants and how to get it, it might make it easier for her. What if you two were dating, and you weren't sure of how she felt about you? How would you act then?
Based on the way you've described your wife and her behavior in some of your posts, I wonder if you/she have considered that she might be suffering from depression? (I apologize if you've covered this already. It's hard for me to keep everyone's sich clear in my mind.". The sort of passive disinterest in sex and lethargy and weight gain might all be indicative of this.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
W has been on 4 different SSRIs in the past year, so it could be depression, and the anti-depressants "should" be helping that. I suppose those could be masking certain feelings too. We shall see - she's only been on the 4th one for 2 weeks now. After the 5 week "break in period" I should know more.
I "just did it" again and initiated LM late last night. W was a little cold/non-reactive to my initiation at first, turning her head away when I kissed her cheek & earlobe and lips. This turning away happened not once or twice, but 3 times before she said, "ok, why don't you put on something else" - referring to the TV and putting in a porn video. The tone of her words was more "oh well, I give up, if we have to do this, at least give me something to look at" rather than "wow, let's f*ck!" As I put in a video, she got out the corded massager and started self-servicing. I helped her relax, and after about 10 minutes, she got herself off. Then, she said her usual "I want to feel you inside me" and pulled my shoulder in to her, telling me that it was OK for me to start "my turn" to get off.
She was more into using "dirty words and phrases" last night, so I guess that was good. I just didn't feel the sexual energy from her. I almost lost myself in thoughts, but I put those out of my head and finished. Thank goodness.
I have a fine line to walk in my M... the line between "pushing too hard" and "sitting back and waiting." I suppose we all have this challenge. Having a spouse who is hesitant, unwilling to deal with issues, makes it more difficult.
I have this plan in my head for LM this month - every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday/Sunday (one day of those 2). That's 3 times a week, which is much more than 3 times a month that I had before. The last LM session was lackluster, but it wasn't a mercy f*ck by my W. I'm hoping that she never feels that she needs to "do that." Instead, I hope she says something like, "I'm too tired today. Why don't you just play with yourself?"
I've been reading PM more often now. The "Hugging Until Relaxed" seems like a challenge, considering I can't see my W wanting to hug for 10+ minutes anytime soon. The eyes open sex seems interesting. I think I already keep my eyes open a fair amount of time, but I suppose I'll be more aware of it now.
Keep bringing up opinions 'cause you're making me think.