I started doing this with my H a while back and it works wonders. At first, though, he would look at me incredulously as if to say, "You mean we're not going to shift the focus to you?!" When he realized that he could either answer my question or endure my never-ending polite barrage of requests for him to do so, he would suck it up and answer it. Annnnnnnnnd, I usually found out some of the most interesting tidbits in those conversations cause he was already worked up and would blurt the truth out, instead of trying to sugar coat things, or fudge things a bit in order to make himself look better (or me worse).
I still do this with him, because he is easily distracted and often forgets what the question is if I don't repeat it several times and keep coming back to it.
Quote: Your wife avoids by answering a question with a question. Your objective is not to attack her for doing so, but to remind her that there is a question on the table that needs answering. If you are aware that this is her stategy for avoidance, you can bring it back around to the issue at hand by reminding her that you still have not received an answer.
Oh yes, I have practiced this in the past with some success. I have to get back to it now that I can "hold on to myself" better. W hates when the focus is on her - and she insists that the focus is always on me - but then she is the one who puts it back on me when things get heated.
Is that a "I want what I want, but only when I want it, not when YOU want it for me" type of thing??
Quote: I have to say I am a bit concerned with the way your H treats you. This very much sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship to me, so I urge you to proceed with caution. Do I think he'll hit you or something? No... but when you are dealing with someone emotionally controlling, they can erupt in very loud/mean ways that can be quite, quite startling and hurtful.
Corri,
I read your post last night before I left work, and on my long drive home, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry. No, I don't think he'll hit. But yes, he does yell. The main reason I 'backed down' after starting to state my needs a couple of years ago was that he did get very loud, and worse, got very loud with the kids - to the point of scareing them (and me). He has broken things in front of them. I do step in then, and ask him to go out for a walk and cool off, and I have asked him many times not to take his anger towards me out on the kids, which does cool him off. But I'm not home to put the girls to bed in the evening...I know so far this fall things have been a lot cooler.
But I guess that's part of why I tend to go slow...
Thank you for your advice on how to handle the convos!!!!! I have been able, pretty well to keep things on track when we had been talking about sex, but here, and in other places where he starts in on my voice, or my grammar, etc, it threw me, and I really do feel as though maybe I was in the wrong...and as I have said, I always feel drained after talking with H, about almost anything.
Quote: Heapmom: Things are definitely heating up around there. They do that at my place, too, when little domestic things become battlegrounds. Isn't it kind of funny that, if they would just ML to us, we would probably be more appreciative, do more things around the house in a happy, pleasant manner, be more energetic, etc.?
All I can say is, keep pushing. What's the worst thing that could happen?
The worst that could happen is H would start taking his anger/frustration out on the kids. No he wouldn't hit them, but he does get VERY strict, and loud.
Domestic stuff has been the battleground for a long time. H meets me often at the door to tell me what I've left undone, or done wrong that day. Or makes comments like the cup, that he can't help because I don't do things the way he wants them done. The difference this time was that I said something.
---
I've 'laid low' for a couple of days since the cup convo - H got very quiet and defensive, so I felt I lost a lot of ground. Last night I noticed again how much it bothers me when I don't do something, before I would be happy that things had calmed down, now I get mad at myself for letting him run the show, so I guess I'm getting stronger.
I've decided I definately have to loose 20-30lbs. I've been telling myself I 'pull it off well', but it has been bothering me, and I need all the confidence I can get.
I've been feelling kinda sh*tty...lonely and exhausted. Winter seems to be setting in already, and I don't deal well on 6 hrs sleep a night (especially when I've not been kept up for sex )
Now that MM has become enlightened, I'm going to take over as 'space cadet' of the list, ok?
Last night I got home, and H had put the boys to bed as I asked, since we were to get up early this morning since S4b had a drs apt. nothing major, but in this social country, it was a screening thing that we had to get 'special permission' for and wait to get the time, etc. so I had put the date on the calender as soon as I got the notice, and put the official papers up out of the way.
Well, I pulled the papers out last night to get them ready to take with us this morning, and there it says in big bold letters 'Monday Sept. 6'. OK, in Finnish, but Monday in Fin. even starts with a M, so I can't really even blame a spaced out language moment for this one. Guess I'm more stressed out about this than I let on.
On thing I've noticed in the past few weeks is just how much I had been relying on 'other-validation' to get me through the sitch at home. Nothing major, just flirting a bit, very innocently every once in a while to make sure I was still alive, but I will admit to finding it hard not to rely on that, and to self sooth. Still got a long way to go in the differentiating dept.
Anyway...since I blew the Dr's appt big time, I was feeling pretty stressed out, and H sensed it and was getting tense as well. Finally I suggested we go out and take a walk, and I was pleasantly surprised that he agreed.
Of course, as you've all come to expect in the heaphousehold, nothing 'just' happens...first H complained about how I had parked the car, and I asked if he could at some point clean out the garage so I could park inside now that it was getting cold (we had a frost last night). So H decided to do it then. It was only a little job, which I knew, but I also knew it would raise H's anxiety level...
We finally set off, and I really had to keep from laughing. H would almost run ahead, then wait for me, soldier straight, at every intersection to see which way I would go. I could tell from his step that he was very anxious, and I tried to sort of engage him in small talk, to no avail. I was not about to bring up any R stuff 'out of the blue' in that context.
So we walked like that for a while, with H acting a little like my 4 yr old twins...and when we get back to the house, he started to clean out the drain in front of the house.
I said 'It would be nice, if we decide to do something, just the two of us, that we put other things aside for a while. You could come out and clean the drain another time'
H 'You don't get it. And it's really silly for me to try to explain it, you wouldn't understand'
Me 'Well I certainly can't understand if you don't tell me.' silence. then I foolishly added something along the lines of 'I know it's a good idea to take care of things as they come up, pick up as you go along, but I also know at times it's good to just put those things aside for a while'. H just stood their waiting for me to open the door.
It was after midnight (I get home late). So I decided I would go to sleep. I said goodnight to H, and he said 'I would like somthing to eat. Is there any food?' (read: can you make me something to eat?)
I said 'Yes, there's leftovers in the fridge, and bread on the counter if you want something. Goodnight.'
H had a strange look on his face as I went to bed. He came into our room a little later, with his sort of sad puppy look, probably hoping I would change my mind and come down, but I was tired.
In a way I'm afraid that setting boundaries may have the effect for us, for a while anyway, of seperating us even more. My schedule is crazy, and we're not in the house together very often, but when we are, usually H is sleeping. Then he expects me to stay up with him at night. I really can't do this any longer, not as late as we have, and this is a matter of health, and safety - I have a long commute.
Maybe H will realize that he's going to have to start sleeping at night as well, and getting up in the morning, but even if he doesn't, I can't go on with the schedule I'm keeping. I keep thinking I'm sounding a bit LD with this, but I've been running on going to bed after 1am and getting up before 7 for too long. I would be willing to do it once in a while, especially for ML or time together, but H is going to have to make compromises on the other end as well.
Now that MM has become enlightened, I'm going to take over as 'space cadet' of the list, ok?
Last night I got home, and H had put the boys to bed as I asked, since we were to get up early this morning for S4b's drs apt. nothing major, but in this social country, it was a screening thing that we had to get 'special permission' for and wait to get the time, etc. so I had put the date on the calender as soon as I got the notice, and put the official papers up out of the way.
Well, I pulled the papers out last night to get them ready to take with us this morning, and there it says in big bold letters 'Monday Sept. 6'. OK, in Finnish, but Monday in Fin. even starts with a M, so I can't really even blame a spaced out language moment for this one. Guess I'm more stressed out about this than I let on.
On thing I've noticed in the past few weeks is just how much I had been relying on 'other-validation' to get me through the sitch at home. Nothing major, just flirting a bit, very innocently every once in a while to make sure I was still alive, but I will admit to finding it hard not to rely on that, and to self sooth. Still got a long way to go in the differentiating dept.
Anyway...since I blew the Dr's appt big time, I was feeling pretty stressed out, and H sensed it and was getting tense as well. Finally I suggested we go out and take a walk, and I was pleasantly surprised that he agreed.
Of course, as you've all come to expect in the heaphousehold, nothing 'just' happens...first H complained about how I had parked the car, and I asked if he could at some point clean out the garage so I could park inside now that it was getting cold (we had a frost last night). So H decided to do it then. It was only a little job, which I knew, but I also knew it would raise H's anxiety level...
We finally set off, and I really had to keep from laughing. H would almost run ahead, then wait for me, soldier straight, at every intersection to see which way I would go. I could tell from his step that he was very anxious, and I tried to sort of engage him in small talk, to no avail. I was not about to bring up any R stuff 'out of the blue' in that context.
So we walked like that for a while, with H acting a little like my 4 yr old twins...and when we get back to the house, he started to clean out the drain in front of the house.
I said 'It would be nice, if we decide to do something, just the two of us, that we put other things aside for a while. You could come out and clean the drain another time'
H 'You don't get it. And it's really silly for me to try to explain it, you wouldn't understand'
Me 'Well I certainly can't understand if you don't tell me.' silence. then I foolishly added something along the lines of 'I know it's a good idea to take care of things as they come up, pick up as you go along, but I also know at times it's good to just put those things aside for a while'. Gotta learn to stop feeling the need to get the last word in. yuck. H just stood their waiting for me to open the door.
It was after midnight (I get home late). So I decided I would go to sleep. I said goodnight to H, and he said 'I would like somthing to eat. Is there any food?' (read: can you make me something to eat?)
I said 'Yes, there's leftovers in the fridge, and bread on the counter if you want something. Goodnight.'
H had a strange look on his face as I went to bed. He came into our room a little later, with his sort of sad puppy look, probably hoping I would change my mind and come down, but I was tired.
In a way I'm afraid that setting boundaries may have the effect for us, for a while anyway, of seperating us even more. My schedule is crazy, and we're not in the house together very often, but when we are, usually H is sleeping. Then he expects me to stay up with him at night. I really can't do this any longer, not as late as we have, and this is a matter of health, and safety - I have a long commute.
Maybe H will realize that he's going to have to start sleeping at night as well, and getting up in the morning, but even if he doesn't, I can't go on with the schedule I'm keeping. I keep thinking I'm sounding a bit LD with this, but I've been running on going to bed after 1am and getting up before 7 for too long. I would be willing to do it once in a while, especially for ML or time together, but H is going to have to make compromises on the other end as well.
You will never be as space-cadety as me. Right now I have 3 huge bruises on my leg and I have no idea how I got them.
If you've read my latest posts, you know that my recent success has led me to a pretty straight forward PMish theory about how to "fix" a SSM.
1) Figure out for yourself what sex means to you and just how much of a priority it is in your life. For instance, you might decide that having passionate sex at least twice a week is more important than anything besides music and your kids.
2) Reveal your true views on the importance of sex to your spouse. For example, tell him "Having sex in my life is more important to my happiness than anything besides music and our children.".
3) Tell your spouse your true views on what this means in terms of your relationship. For example, "I love many things about you (list things) and I value many things about our relationship (list things) but I can't be happy without a sex life. However, I value the children's happiness over my own and I feel that I would be unable to support them without you and I believe that they benefit from growing up with two parents in their household, so I will remain in this marriage at least until the children are a bit older, but I will not pretend that I am content with the sexual situation or with your efforts as a husband.".
4) Offer your H a straight-forward Two-Choice Dilemma based on 1,2 and 3. For instance, "If you want me to be happy in our relationship and therefore willing to continue in our marriage once the children are older, you must figure out a way to initiate sex or positively respond to my initiations at least twice a week. Be aware that I will not be content with ill-humored "mercy" sex. If you choose to not work on improving our sex life, I will live with you as a friendly roommate while the children are still young and start planning for a future without you."
5) IMO the only way to be able to successfully get to the point that you are able to proceed through steps 1,2,3 and 4 is by truly taking responsibility for your own happiness by figuring out for yourself a way that you can be happy no matter what choice your H makes. You have presented him with 2 choices, but there are really some unspoken ones he might choose too. He could choose to stay in the marriage, not work on the sex but be unpleasant in other ways such as yelling at the children or have an affair. He could choose to let his anger control his decision and leave you immediately just because you had the audacity to force him to make such a choice. So you have to consider all the possible consequences of your actions and figure out how you can live with integrity and therefore the possibility of happiness no matter what choice he makes.
If you present your request for more sex in such a way that you are basically saying "The only way I will be happy is if you have more sex with me." your H will naturally rebel against this pathetic request. It is too much pressure on a LD spouse to make their sex drive responsible for your happiness. If your request is truly along the lines of "I will only be happy if I can plan a future in which I am having sex.", you take some of the pressure off your H. You are giving him the option of choosing whether your relationship is more important to him than being LD. If you make him responsible for your happiness, you also make him responsible for your unhappiness and force him to take a defensive stance and also give him the choice of believing that you do not know what makes you happy or you will never be happy so why should he try.
Quote: Hmm. H just got up and gave me a hug and kiss...
Excellent. He is beginning to realize that his petty behavior will not change your resolve on this issue, so his respect for you is growing.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Great 5 point plan MojoMayhem. I will implement 1,2,3 and 4 right away. Next time you hear from me I will have 3 bruises on my leg and swollen nuts. (The 3 bruses will be where she missed and the swelling will be due to a direct hit). I will then be considering point 5. SD - Enjoying the unusually warm September sunshine.
Great great great post, Mojo! You get Thursday's First Post into Hairdog's Archive Award. Some day, all this will finally sink in, I will implement these plans, and I, too, will have bruised nuts. I can't wait!
1,2,3,4,5 Done, done, done, done, done. Yes, it certainly jolted him enough to get back into an active sex life with me.
But there's more. There's always more, and its never just about sex. This is what I am coming to realize. I think you are even one step ahead, because your H has begun to get it.
