Are you at the point where you don't care whether or not H likes you? I just ask because I think you have a lot to say to H that he's not going to appreciate, but "sugar coating" your words is NOT an option anymore. If you don't care whether or not he likes you, you can say them more easily.
After so many years of accommodating H, he's not going to like having to "work on things" now. I know because my W is the same way. I bring up issues, and she says, "oh, is that a problem?" or "should I be worried about that?" Answer a question with a question. Answer a statement with a question. Never accept responsibility if you don't have to. Grrrrrrrrrrr. It's frustrating.
Yesterday we took the kids to their cousin's 4th b day. Long ride, but it was fun.
We got home, and I made dinner, put the kids to bed, and cleaned up. H came down later, and announced 'I'm going to leave my cup on the counter because I can't figure out your system of loading the washer, and I don't want to have to take everything out and start again'.
I figured I've started this...I lost it. Actually, it was a calm loosing it I finally calmed down enough to get him to listen to me...after a few minutes of setting out the perameters of the convo (don't talk long, don't raise your voice...)
It really feels like an excuse when you say you can't find a place to fit your cup in. Can't we reach some kind of compromise, why is it that your way has to be right? I did make dinner, and clean up afterwards, and when you come and complain about how I do it, it does feel like you don't appreciate that (this took a while to get out, as I was interrupted several times to tell me that my voice was rising, which was making my frustration level rise).
H then went back to emptying the dishwasher. I went into the living room to wait for him, then decided against it. It was late, I was exhausted, and I didn't really feel like giving him the reassurance that everything was ok. H spent another hour or so cleaning the kitchen. It did take a lot for me to calm myself down and get to sleep.
I sort of felt that I needed to say that and not let it slide, and to h*ll with whether or not it was right or good to say that. I worry too much about how H feels, not to mention about how others see me...I'm afraid of making mistakes. Now I'm going to have to hold onto myself with the fallout from that one.
Quote: H came down later, and announced 'I'm going to leave my cup on the counter because I can't figure out your system of loading the washer, and I don't want to have to take everything out and start again'.
Unless you are in the habit of b*tching at him when he leaves a cup on the counter, this was obviously an aggressive move. Perhaps he knows that if he makes you lose your temper, he gains advantage in an argument. I had to learn to address issues with my H without breaking down and crying and apologizing. You need to learn to address issues with your H without losing your temper and then having to feel bad/apologetic because you feel it is wrong to lose your temper. What if you had said ' I couldn't care less about the cup. Let's talk about our sex life.". What if you were to say something like this in response to every petty issue your H brings up in order to "get your goat"?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It was a departure for me. Normally I would have just ignored it, put it in the dishwasher myself and left it at that, just cause I know what brining it up will cause. I'm tired of the fact that I either do everything, or he makes a big production out of doing it 'his' way. That's why I called it this time, and it wasn't the old me loosing my cool and just storming off at all.
If I had just said, 'I don't care about the cup let's talk about our sex life', H would have most likely just laughed it off.
He did make a big production of avoiding me this morning, and being a martyr about making his own breakfast while I was getting the girls ready for school. I was just pleasant.
Ohhhhh man... I can sense that "things" are building up to the point where H is gonna blow up at you in a not-so-nice way. Are you ready to ask him to leave for a night when he's enraged? Can you make it through a night without him in bed or in the house, without calling him and wanting to talk it out?
I hope that I'm wrong. I hope that H grows up, realizes that he has a dedicated W who wants to enjoy life fully instead of just enjoying her kids and her music, and opens up to you. I just... read the things that you're writing about him and see my W and I many years ago, before kids, before I "grew up" and became a H and lover instead of just a BF and "date."
Quote: H came down later, and announced 'I'm going to leave my cup on the counter because I can't figure out your system of loading the washer, and I don't want to have to take everything out and start again'.
I really feel this statement is symbolic of what's going on sexually for you. He is leaving his "cup" out because he can't figure " you" out, and doesn't want to do the work to " start again."
In no way do I view you as a dishwasher!
I think part of the reason you get so upset is that you have your own mixed feelings of digging in and rearranging things knowing what you are up against ( you have posted this feeling before).
Don't "allow" the household stuff to throw you off balance. The only way to get your emotional/sexual needs met is to confront, confront, confront. I know it's exhausting, but you know way too much now to throw in the towel. I wish I had recognized sooner that my kids, although a constant source of pleasure and distraction, are not enough to complete me in my home...I am a woman too.
Heapmom: Things are definitely heating up around there. They do that at my place, too, when little domestic things become battlegrounds. Isn't it kind of funny that, if they would just ML to us, we would probably be more appreciative, do more things around the house in a happy, pleasant manner, be more energetic, etc.?
All I can say is, keep pushing. What's the worst thing that could happen?
Talk to my W please! She needs some of your "enlightenment."
Chris, when my kids were your kids' ages, I was about as LD as you can get. I had all the usual LD stuff going on: I was exhausted and probably more depressed than I realized, had a lot of anger/resentment, was fused in my maternal, "grown up" role, and just did not "get" why sex would still be important. I remember also needing the "perfect" set of circumstances to feel good enough about my H to ML.
So you see, change is most definitely possible. I was HD in my past so I did have that going for me.
I have to say I am a bit concerned with the way your H treats you. This very much sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship to me, so I urge you to proceed with caution. Do I think he'll hit you or something? No... but when you are dealing with someone emotionally controlling, they can erupt in very loud/mean ways that can be quite, quite startling and hurtful.
Having said that... I thought it was very interesting during the 'cup' conversation that he kept interrupting you to address the level and tone of your voice... and you adjusted to that. Keep in mind that when you are in any type of discussion, he will try whatever he can do to change the subject or make it your problem. In this case, he kept subtly reminding you just exactly who sets the rules for the conversation and that you were violating said rules. It annoyed you and distracted you, and he knows it. Do you see?
The next time you are talking to him, trying to make a point and he interrupts you, (let's use the voice tone/level as an example), do the following:
H: You're voice is getting loud again...
Y: The level of my voice is not the issue here. Now, as I was saying...
H: I cannot speak with you when you are like this.
Y: I'll be happy to discuss with you my temperment when we have finished with this discussion. (continue conversation)
H: Do you have any idea how you sound/appear right now?
Y: We aren't talking about me at the moment, we are talking about you...(continue conversation)
There are several other instances of this scenario... but in essence what they all are, are attempts on his part to distract you enough that the focus is taken off him and placed back onto you. It is a CLASSIC method of avoidance behavior. What you have to learn is how to patiently bring the focus back to him. If you are aware that he does this, this really helps to keep your annoyance levels down, because you will be expecting this.
This is what the shrink told me was learning how to fight fair. Meaning, you learn to keep all past transgressions and the kitchen sink OUT of your current discussion by NOT engaging in distracting issues, and continually bringing the conversation BACK to the issue at hand. Try it sometime... if you do it righ the first time, you get to see your spouse go through the roof in less than 10 minutes... it is a very satisifying event, especially if your spouse prides themselves on always being the calm and collected one...
But beyond that, you do learn how to address the issues at hand, and hopefully move closer to resolution. You cannot do that if your spouse always distracts you.
Corri
P.S. Chris, you can do the same thing with your wife. I.e.,
W: "oh, is that a problem?"
Y: I've asked you a question and I am waiting for a response.
W: Well, I don't know what you mean. You seem to be the one who has the problem here.
Y: Then let me repeat the question for you. Again, ask your question.
W: And again I'll ask you, is that a problem?
Y: We have two questions to answer at the moment. Mine and yours. The issue at hand at the moment is my question. We'll get to yours in a moment. (Repeat question).
Your wife avoids by answering a question with a question. Your objective is not to attack her for doing so, but to remind her that there is a question on the table that needs answering. If you are aware that this is her stategy for avoidance, you can bring it back around to the issue at hand by reminding her that you still have not received an answer.
But when you do this, you have to stay clear headed enough to remember your issue/question, and you have to not let whatever zingers they bring up from the past/present/future to distract you from your goal.
I finally calmed down enough to get him to listen to me...after a few minutes of setting out the perameters of the convo (don't talk long, don't raise your voice...)
