Conversation 101

[InherJourney]

Hi Kathy,

I had the same impression as HD...he seems very childish.

WTG on the convo!!! My H also views my confronting him as fighting, which is a way of him trying to get me to back down. Continue with your messsage...remember it's a good one and if successful, will pull him out of this asexual rut, so it really is for his benefit as well.

Good luck,
IHJ

[SolidMechanic]

Dear Heapmom,

Now wasn't that easy? HELL NO!!! You are roughly in the same place I am - no sex, but you've laid down the gauntlet. Heapdad will look at you now like you've got a 2x4 behind your back and you are going to swat him between the eyes at any moment.

I can't pretend to know what he is thinking. You can't either, since he doesn't seem to talk. But you bashed down one of the walls in his cozy little house. If he is at all like my wife, he's not coming out right now. He sounds like a world class foot dragger. He's as dug in as the anchor for the QE2. If he does start talking, he is going to blame you. Actually, he is already doing that. You should point out the illogic of his positions. (My wife's favorite rant is "Why do I have to do all the changing?" This is nonsense. I have changed a ton. And if we want to go from no sex to some sex, yes she has to change.) But listen to the few things that he does say. I'm sure that some of them are legitimate grievences. Tell him he's right and that you'll work on them. It will decrease his grounds for stonewalling and put even more pressure on him.

I have another issue for you, and it is a little delicate. Are you putting him in a dilema that he needs to work his way out of? If he does not start paying attention to your emotional and sexual needs, what are you going to do? Have you thought this through carefully? Have you told him? He may think that he can drag his feat because you don't have any other options. In my case, I didn't threaten impending divorce, but I did tell W not to expect to grow old with me if she didn't change.

Here's hoping for more productive conversations about sex and intimacy with our respective spouses.

Regards,

SM

[honeypot]

Heapmomma,
Wow no wonder you were nervous about confronting him. I too think his responses are odd.
What could he possibly think is funny about wanting a sex life within your marriage? Have you two really grown that far apart that he wouldn't even consider the possibility that you were serious?

I sooooooooo admire you for doing this. In reading the convo, I was amazed at your poise and balls. (how's that for eloquence, LOL!)
It couldn't have been easy. Believe me, if I were to recount my very first "I need sex" convo with H, you would see nothing but bawling on my end and massive confusion on his. You rock, sister!

Congrats and like the others said, be prepared to bring this up again and soon. He will try to blow it off as some "weird mood" you were in or some nonsense like that. Stand your ground; you have everything to gain!

Good job, momma.

[sat567]

Hee hee...read this out loud a few times:

I was amazed at your poise and balls.

No wonder my W doesn't want to get near mine.

Hairdog

[cinemanymph]

Heap,

It must have taken some brass ones to initiate that convo with your H. Kudos to you for opening up what must be a very painful topic for you.

I have been LD up until very recently. I'm hoping my experience might shed some light on your Hs reaction to your dialog about sex. In my past, I could talk about sex in a general way or listen to someone else talk about theirs, but ask me a pointed question about mine, my stomach would start to growl, my heart would begin to pound, and I would begin to sweat, my ears would ring. Squirming was the physical manifestation of all these sensations happening at once. My body would be in such an uproar, physically, that it made it nearly impossible to talk about it. This wasn't a reaction to a particular person, but a reaction to having a conversation about sex. It certainly was childlike/ish, in my case it was completely involuntary. If I participated, the physical sensations would increase.

Is he squeamish about all physical touch? Is this the only issue that he responds in this manner to?

[FocusedFlutist]

Thanks to all of you for your support.

HP, I was fighting the tears, but once I 'psyched' myself up, and started, I realized, I'm a performer, teacher, and mother of four. This ain't all that different, and way more important, so I was able to dig in.

CN,

Yes my H is very squeamish about any kind of physical touch. Finns in general keep more 'personal space' around themselves culturally than even Americans. But I think for H his own family didn't help matters. And he responds in this foot dragging, avoidence way to most topics that need to be discussed.

SM,

I've been thinking about what you said about putting him in a dilema. I think right now the fact that I stated things straightout caugh him enough off guard that he will think, but I know I need a plan if I want to make it work. One of my thoughts was that I could move into the guest room.
I would like to have an 'exit' plan. Which for me would need to include some way of financially being able to somewhat stand on my own feet. Not that I'd leave, but it would give me a lot more confidence, and leverage. I do own half this house, and have a smallish account in my name in the States, but as you might imagine, it would be difficult, to say the least, to raise 4 kids on a flute teacher's salary. I'm not willing right now, while the kid's are young to take a second job, and it's difficult even to find time to do the stuff necessary to start getting playing gigs.

i spent yesterday (tues) in a sort of confused fog as I started to see all the fusion in my life and R, and really feeling like I wanted to just go off to a deserted (or desserted ) island somewhere. Part of the problem is that I don't have a chance to complete any thought while my little ones make their necessary demands . So when D8 woke up a little while ago coughing, I found myself still tossing and turning when I tried to get back to sleep, which is why I came here. I've got lots more to write, but more importantly right now, I can still squeeze in an hour or so of sleep, so I'll finish writing later.

[TheNewChris]

One of my thoughts was that I could move into the guest room.

From what I've read here on other threads, moving into another room is NOT going to help you at all. If you think that the "virtual wall" between you and H is large and growing, just imagine what the "physical wall" of being in separate rooms will do. Others who have done this may be able to comment on how it makes each partner feel. I would imagine that moving back into the shared bedroom after moving out would be difficult.

As far as "personal space" around a Finn... well... how did you manage to have 4 children if H likes his personal space?? He's your H, and you're his W. The personal space issue shouldn't be huge, should it?

- Chris.

[MJontheMend]

I agree with Chris that moving out of the bedroom is a bad idea. My best suggestion is for you to do what worked for me. Tell your H your honest opinion about the future of your relationship if things don't change. I told my H that I couldn't imagine the two of us continuing on alone together once the children were gone if things didn't improve. Theoretically, this gave him 5 years in which to drag his feet, but realistically he knew he had to face up to the situation immediately.

[SolidMechanic]

One of my thoughts was that I could move into the guest room.

Yeah, I thught about this too. But then I thought about how my in-laws had separate bedrooms for years, and started thinking that this might actually take the pressure off, rather than keeping the pressure on. Especially for Heapdad, since he likes his "personal space", he might really love separate BRs.

I would like to have an 'exit' plan. Which for me would need to include some way of financially being able to somewhat stand on my own feet. Not that I'd leave, but it would give me a lot more confidence, and leverage. I do own half this house, and have a smallish account in my name in the States, but as you might imagine, it would be difficult, to say the least, to raise 4 kids on a flute teacher's salary. I'm not willing right now, while the kid's are young to take a second job, and it's difficult even to find time to do the stuff necessary to start getting playing gigs.

When I asked those questions about what do you do to bring your husband to the table, it was because I kind of figured that divorce would be a very poor option for you, considering your situation. Few of us, including me, are ready to call it quits. Many of us would never even consider D. One of the hard parts of this process is finding levers that will work on our spouses.

Do they have marriage councilors in Finland? It would be good to try working stuff out face to face with an "expert", and would also put a lot of heat on Heapdad. You can ask H to go with you, but don't expect it.

SM

[TheNewChris]

Theoretically, this gave him 5 years in which to drag his feet, but realistically he knew he had to face up to the situation immediately.

So at what age was this "magical cutoff" for you, MM? I worry about the "after the kids are gone" void all the time. Actually, I've heard that it's more like "after the kids want nothing to do with mom & dad." I can't imagine staring at the walls during dinner because my W and I have nothing to discuss! *sigh*

- Chris.