Return of the DBRookie

[DBrookie]

After a few months doing some soul searching and working on myself I thought I would check back in. You might remember me from: HD WAW now LD / The BIG Test

I moved to a new city in May and was waiting for the divorce papers to show up. It was one part "Going Silent" from Divorce Busting and one part putting myself in a place to restart my life.

And then a funny thing happened. The divorce busting part actually appears to have work. W and I have begun speaking again, have spent a few weekends together, and both of us are talking about how we both want to work things out.

Now for the SSM portion of all of this. Despite a lot of quality time and talking...W has stopped me several times while putting the moves on her. We spent last weekend together and we talked at length about our sexual roadblock.

W said that she can't force herself to ML with me because she's still very hurt about the past. She knows that I've taken responsibility for a lot of the problems of the past, but for the first time she's taken responsibility for the past and present.

W said that she doesn't know why her body won't respond to something her mind wants. She tenses up, feels ill, and pushes me away when we're in very close quarters. I told her that I think she's just trying to protect herself from getting hurt, and I understand that.

She says that she's been trying to push past this intimacy roadblock with me because she really wants to ML but just can't. I guess I'm looking for some feedback about how I can keep showing interest without pressure...and what might be going through her mind.

[NotATLDave]

I don't know. In other folk's situation, I usually offer some sort of PM-like way of creating an environment where the spouse has to deal with their own issues. But in your case, it seems a lot trickier. I really just want to tell you to be patient, kind, and understanding. She's apparently acknowledged the issue and wants it to change but I something in her heart is warning her. I just tried to find the page number PM that explains the issue in your marriage where you flip-flopped. As I was looking, I kept coming across my underlines and notes and realized that I need to read PM again. It's addressing my recent problems. I think this book can be re-read every time your reach a different "level".

But seriously, my gut says to figure things out first before worrying about sex. It is likely that you could behave LD. It would be interesting to see if you all would experience the flip-flop again. If so, that would indicate a highly fused relationship with "shared functioning". PM mentions this. Take another whack at it if you haven't already.

[sat567]

Hey DBR...I remember you and your sitch well. Happy to hear that you guys are working some things out, but bummed to hear that the SSM is still persisting. I suppose I'd reluctantly suggest that patience and compassion without pressure will work for you. I'm reluctant because patience has not served me well in my situation. Rather, it merely acts as a delay. I pretty much have to keep on pressuring W to get her to move along, and to make her realize I'm not giving up. However, YMMV.

Always nice to see an old board member,

Hairdog

[honeypot]

Hi DBrookie!
I'm so very happy for you; sounds like things are moving right along. Congratulations!

About the sex.......hmmm, I don't know what to say about that.
How aggressive are you being when you initiate? Are you letting her call the shots? Maybe that element of 'control' is too much for her..if she senses that she is calling the shots and you are following her wishes, then maybe her resentment/pride/stubbornness will not allow her to go with the flow.
Perhaps if you just WENT FOR IT without microanalyzing whether she is wanting you to, she would respond?

I further think that just a few ML sessions will win her over. I don't think this is a permanent condition; she's just resentful and needs a way to dump it. Unfortunately I think you need to have SEX before you can successfully dump sexual resentment, huh!

I know it probably flies in the face of most of the Women Advice you have ever heard..to not pay as much attention to her cues and just go for what you want...but she is really overthinking things and maybe she just needs an encounter where you are doing the thinking for both of you.
Rip her clothes off...ok, take her clothes off if that is moving too fast...kiss her neck...show her what you are after.

I don't know if you have tried this but I would melt with this approach. No matter how resentful I was feeling, once he took the control and stopped giving it to me so heavily I wouldn't be able to concentrate on anything except how much I wanted him.

That is, if you are (in effect) saying to her with your actions and words, "Are you ready to have sex with me yet?" the answer will always be no.

Try not to give her time to answer that question. Don't ask it and don't even ask it with your actions. Maybe a better question would be "How many times should we have sex tonight?" and let THAT be what your actions are saying to her..

Just a thought. I don't know if it applies but I am pulling for you, as always!

Soooooooooooooo glad that things are working out. I'm hoping for the very best for you.

Honey

[DBrookie]

Honey...thanks for the advice.

I would say that I've been both the initiator and taking control in all of our encounters for a year now. But in the last month...now that we're seeing each other again...I'm starting to see some progress.

The last time we were together I gave her a 30 minute head to toe message and she really enjoyed it. When I used a bit more oil and was more seductive towards the end she kinda tensed up a lot. It was probably the closest she's come to having sex with me in a year...but then she tensed up and wanted me to stop and just cuddle with her.

We talked about it the next day. What she told me was pretty revealing. Essentially that she has always valued her self-worth and 99% of her self-esteem based on whether or not a man wanted to have sex with her. She said it's something she's always stuggled with for her whole life. And that being wanted sexually...even if it was from someone she'd never sleep with...gave her a boost. So when we had our problems it hurt her to the core because that's how she has always viewed sex...it was about her self-esteem and not really the other person in the room.

I said that I understood what she was saying and how my problems must have hurt her a great deal. She also said that she just doesn't know how to think about it a different way...but that she doesn't want to feel this way.

I suggested that instead of the need to feel wanted...how about making me feel wanted. Something that honestly I've always felt was missing...and didn't really understand why she acted that way towards me until this talk. Essentially...if you want something, then you need to give it. That way you're being expressive and not just hoping to be on the receiving end.

Anyhow...we plan to spend this weekend together so I'm hoping that we can have some quality time together. I keep being positive and I'm betting that eventually she'll be able to breakthrough this wall she's built up.

Thoughts?

[TonyP]

DBr,

When I used a bit more oil and was more seductive towards the end she kinda tensed up a lot. It was probably the closest she's come to having sex with me in a year...but then she tensed up and wanted me to stop and just cuddle with her

Same thing happened to me! Only my WAW didn't have any problem fu***** a stranger, and filing for D!

[DBrookie]

???

[honeypot]

she has always valued her self-worth and 99% of her self-esteem based on whether or not a man wanted to have sex with her. She said it's something she's always stuggled with for her whole life. And that being wanted sexually...even if it was from someone she'd never sleep with...gave her a boost. So when we had our problems it hurt her to the core because that's how she has always viewed sex...it was about her self-esteem and not really the other person in the room.

I don't think this is that unusual with women, honestly. I don't know that I would go so far as to say it was not about the other person in the room--that sounds a little extreme unless it was someone you were TRYING to forget about, lol--but I totally know where she is coming from with these sentiments. I don't see a problem with how she views her sexuality except that it sounds a little extreme to me.
In addition to that, she needs to continue to do the repairwork on herself until she gets to the point that she can see herself as a sexy hot momma without needing to hear it (or see it) from a man FIRST. Does that make sense?

I suggested that instead of the need to feel wanted...how about making me feel wanted. Something that honestly I've always felt was missing...and didn't really understand why she acted that way towards me until this talk. Essentially...if you want something, then you need to give it. That way you're being expressive and not just hoping to be on the receiving end.

The first part of your paragraph doesn't sit right with me. Are you saying that INSTEAD of you showing desire to her she should instead concentrate on showing it to you? Why does it have to be one or the other? What is wrong with mutually showing it or having one or the other showing it?
Or, are you saying that she NEVER showed her desire to you but rather sat back and waited for you to fail to show it to her?
If you are wondering how I could 'nail' your situation so accurately with that last sentence well, lemme tell ya, I was your wife at one time and I still am at times. (shame on me, I know)

Were there times when she would show it? I am good about showing it after we are already underway with ML but I have a very hard time putting my desire on the table first, with him. Mostly because I am all too aware that he doesn't want me as much as I want him and so I feel foolish for pursuing him.

BUT!!! You are right. That does not absolve me or your dear W from showing desire and fully participating in that aspect of the R.
Grr, I hate when people remind me of the ways that I need to step up to the plate.

Good luck with the weekend and by all means keep staying positive. I am amazed at how quickly you are drawing her back to you.

Cheers,
Honey

[DBrookie]

Or, are you saying that she NEVER showed her desire to you but rather sat back and waited for you to fail to show it to her?
If you are wondering how I could 'nail' your situation so accurately with that last sentence well, lemme tell ya, I was your wife at one time and I still am at times. (shame on me, I know)

DING! DING! DING! Yeah, for the most part that's what happened. And I've become a big convert to the whole it takes both people being passionate towards each other for both people to get what they want most.

And I think right now she's trying to learn how to do that, learn how to feel comfortable being sexual around this new guy, and not feel like it'll end. Having almost lost the love of my life you can bet that ain't gonna happen.