Vacation Break

[SolidMechanic]

Dear MM,

Yes, you've put your finger on it. Although, when I use the term "mercy ****", I am just using the term in the context that was used in PM, when Schnarch was talking about normal marital sadism. It is mercy sex when it is done as a tool of control, to make the LD spouse feel superior to HD spouse. If it's done grudgingly, with an attitude of "Oh, all right, if it will make you happy and shut you up for a couple of days."

On the other hand, I have read stories from posters to this forum where their LD spouses are agreeing to make love with them in spite of not really feeling like it, because they are acknowledging their spouses' desire to get closer and build EC through sex. If a LD spouse can look themselves in the mirror and think that they are doing it as a love building exercise, rather than as a move to placate their spouses, then it becomes a differentiation move. This may be semantics, but rather than call it "mercy sex", I would tend to call it "making love", in the truest sense of the phrase.

Another good point that you bring up, which SSM emphasizes, is that desire can follow arousal for the LD partner. But I think that is more likely to happen with "love making" than with "mercy sex".

Regards,

SM

[sat567]

Now you got me thinking. Last weekend, as you no doubt heard by my insane shouts of glee, my W and I had sex. Was it mercy sex? Was it placation? Was it a love-building exercise? Was it something that she actually ended up enjoying?

Hairdog, who doesn't have the answers this a.m.

[GonnaGoBlind]

My W definitely falls into the arousal before desire camp. She usually has no desire, but if she gets aroused she becomes an animal. Until I read and we discussed SSM, neither of us had any idea that it worked that way, and she'd resist any attempts to arouse her saying she isn't in the mood/has a head ache/stomach ache etc. Now that were aware of it, life has gotten much much better. I still need to reminded occasionally that she doesn't self-start and we are working on that.

[SolidMechanic]

Now you got me thinking. Last weekend, as you no doubt heard by my insane shouts of glee, my W and I had sex. Was it mercy sex? Was it placation? Was it a love-building exercise? Was it something that she actually ended up enjoying?

Hairdog, who doesn't have the answers this a.m.

Oh, gee. I think you can tell, unless you're really dense or your wife is a pro. How did it feel? Did you feel good inside and out? I wouldn't want anyone second guessing their experiences. I guess, ultimately, it depends more on how your W felt about it emotionally. How good you are at reading that, only you can say.

SM

[SolidMechanic]

Actually, that's not a bad question. I guess my first answer would be to make the obvious point that you can't f*ck a guy who doesn't have a hard-on. But maybe I should say something like "Well I'm really horny and I'd like to be close to you, so I'm just going to cuddle up close and MB.".

Good answer.

SM

[barneyfife]

I'd like to make a serious post for once.

I've been whining a bit (read: a lot) this week. I apologize for pulling you into my negativity.

Everyone knows that I'm kind of the class clown here and sometimes I don't know when not to make a joke. It's my way of coping with things I know I can't and that won't change. But I would like to tell you that I really admire the efforts you're all willing to make in your M. I've learned a great deal from your posts. I'm consistently amazed at how well you express feelings that I don't have words for.

Finding this forum has opened my eyes to many helpful things. The W here have brought me a different POV and leave me envious of your Hs (although that's not always productive). Your attitudes often leave me shaking my head, and though I often make sexual innuendos, that was not one of them. In fact, in spite of my joking attempts to make every one of you want me, I can honestly say that I have not put a face on any one of you. But BOY, DO YOU ALL LOOK GOOD FROM THE NECK DOWN! (You didn't really think I could make it all the way through being serious, did you? )

Thanks to all. You've helped me more than you know.

Mike - off for vacation...will return to annoy in two weeks

[MJontheMend]

In fact, in spite of my joking attempts to make every one of you want me, I can honestly say that I have not put a face on any one of you. But BOY, DO YOU ALL LOOK GOOD FROM THE NECK DOWN!

It's kind of interesting to note that many of the HDW on this board (myself included) frequently describe themselves in an effort to prove that their Hs aren't LD because of our appearance. The men on the board seldom do this. I wonder if that is because you are all very sure of your physical attractiveness or if it is because it is very evident that this has nothing to do with your wives low drives. Of course, I am the poster girl for SSM poor body image due to my H using the "you're too fat" and men need visual stimulation excuses, thus my recurrent temptation to post a picture of myself in order to prove my point.

[InherJourney]

You know, MM, in my LD days when I was doing the rejecting, my feeling is that H did not personalize it the way I do now that he is rejecting me. I reclaimed my sexuality only to discover that H had little desire of me, and the reality of this was more than I could tolerate. I am beginning to see that one of the motivating factors I had to becoming sexual again was an awareness of H's increasing indifference; as long as he desired me, I was okay.
What a shocker to discover that at my core I am not this modern, intellectual type woman, that there's this need to be viewed sexually by a male, preferably my H.
I see HD's W's disapproving glances from here.
Journey

[MJontheMend]

What a shocker to discover that at my core I am not this modern, intellectual type woman, that there's this need to be viewed sexually by a male, preferably my H.
I see HD's W's disapproving glances from here.

I'm probably as hard-core of a feminist as HD's wife. When I was young, my take on feminism was that I felt that great sex sort of increased my neopagan goddess powers. When I lived in a house full of HD women in college, we put a sign out on our front lawn on the summer solstice stating that we were looking for a male to sacrifice his virginity to Aphrodite at our party that evening. That was a fun party.

I thought it was rather revealing that HD said in one post that his wife would be okay if he had sex with another woman and then came home and had intellectual conversations with him. The woman apparently believes that intelligence and sex drive are mutually incompatible in females. How pre-feminist 1950s is that? Someone needs to buy that girl a Liz Phair CD or a copy of "Fear of Flying". She's at least 4 decades behind in her feminist reading.

[NotATLDave]

Solid,

That's a good point. I think there can be a fine line with mercy-sex. My W begrudgingly got undressed after I initiated but I didn't read her approach as "mercy"...but "crap...whatever". I felt that her heart was in the right place because she has clearly "heard" me and understands what it means to me. I had faith that it would be better in the long run to accept it and I was right.

BTW. W said "geez, haven't we met our quota for the week?"...I finally got to say "well, you're right...I've heard that too much sex is bad for a marriage". Unfortunately, she just kind of looked at me and said "huh?" Then I said "2 is not the quota...it's a minimum...there's no rules saying that we can't be troublemakers and do it one extra time!".

Now, there's a much greater chance that I was sadistic with her. She tried to offer a nice rejection by saying..."I'm really tired, can we do it another time?". I replied..."well, I bet tomorrow your are going to be wiped out because of....". And that's when she took off her clothes. It may sound like I was insensitive, but I really just wanted some non-orgasmic "union" with her for about 10 minutes and I intended to let her get to sleep quickly. There's also the thought that I shouldn't be so "considerate" all the time. I needed to boost the EC. I did it, it worked. End of story. It was a risk worth taking because we both ended up having a nice time despite the sketchy start. Sometimes, on of the LD's "control centers", namely the "energy czar" will make them think that they won't be able to perform/enjoy themselves etc. but once you get going, they surprise themselves. This will hopefully have them question their instincts and not fully trust their feelings. This happens to me all the time before big, hard bike rides...I sometimes procrastinate, skip, or avoid them but when someone drags me to it and I do well, I try to tell myself..."that wasn't bad at all...I just need to show up".