Quote: What to do when the HD partner wants to be attacked? Without having to ask for it or plan for it, which would obviously ruin the experience?
I think you do have to ask for it, but not right when you want it. Just describe to your H exactly what you mean by wanting to be "attacked" and tell him you wish he would do that every once in a while. When he does it, reinforce the behavior. My H does "attack" me sometimes. When he initiates sex, he isn't necessarily "wimpy" about it. The lack of "attack" encounters in my relationship is directly proportional to the lack of initiation on his part in general. He initiated an "attack" encounter a few weeks ago and I re-enacted it for him during phone sex last week. I just treat liking to be "attacked" the same way I treat any other sort of foreplay or technique that I enjoy. I just say the equivalent of "That was great. Please do it again soon." and hope for the best.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
HP, We just had this very conversation this morning. Being and HDH, I can definitively say that us H's want the same thing and feel the same dissapointment when we realize that we either have to initiate or ask for them to initiate (at which time it isn't them initiating at all, is it?). Our convo this morning followed me going down on her, and then she was done...I asked if she'd ever wake me up that way, and her response was that it never even crossed her mind as something to do
Anyway, I think it may have a lot to do with the assertion in SSM that some in some folks desire follows arousal. She is certainly one of them. I think what we settled on was that she's got to "just do it" to get herself jumpstarted. I'm afraid it will always be a conscious effort on the part of the LD to do so, so I don't think it will come without lots of work on the LD's part. We've had a lot of discussions (well me talking mostly I guess) about things I dream about. She has picked up on some of it, so maybe there is some hope. Try talking more to H when not in the bed about how much you'd like to be jumped, and go into detail as to what he could do. Talk about it many times, and maybe he'll start to get the message, and if the mood hits oblige. Again, I think it takes a conscious effort on the part of the LD to get the desire jumpstarted.
I guess that's where my frustration is coming from.
He is really quite the statue on this issue...nonmovable.
We have talked, planned, set up a timeframe, etc, and still no action on his part. He seems quite unable to proceed unless I am clearly showing my desire and sortof 'directing' things with either my speech or actions.
For instance, a couple yrs ago he said that he would have a greater interest in me if one day he came home from work and I was wearing a skirt with no panties. I happily obliged! There was no response to seeing me in a skirt and he never got close enough to see what was on underneath. Naturally this took all the wind out of my sails. He then said that he has to be in the right frame of mind, so I suggested that he be the one to ask for it (via email, since I know he is too shy/awkward to do it verbally) and I would again happily oblige. He never did this, of course. So again we talked about it and he said to give him a time frame..otherwise he'd keep putting it off. I said, Ok sometime within the next week you are to ask me to wear a skirt..etc. He never did it.
This is just one of many scenarios in which he wants to do things sexually but just canNOT bring himself to be aggressive in any way shape or form. Which would not be the end of the world, except that I really NEED this from him once in a while. I don't see myself being sexually satisfied with living the rest of my life being the one who guides everything and is tolerant and understanding of the times when he is nonresponsive to my attempts at doing something different.
I need him to put himself on the line once in a while in order to feel that it is something I am willing to do, also.
So I have zero confidence that planning or asking will get him to do this. When he DOES do anything remotely aggressive in the sexual arena, I praise him highly for it. He is usually plenty aggressive once we are started but, really, it is more of him feeding off my vibe instead of bringing something to the table himself.
Ok, Dave, when are you going to tell me to get off my arse and go to the library so I can re-read PM??!??!
Quote: So my question becomes: Is it ever acceptable to want your partner to mind read? Can I want it but just not reserve the right to become pissy if he doesn't catch my brainwaves I'm throwin at him?
Sure, that's OK to want that. Isn't it usually WOMEN who always say "Well, if YOU don't know, then I'm CERTAINLY not going to TELL you!"
I feel for you, HP. Wanting
Quote: I want a lover who will, occasionally, show me his desire first. And I don't want to have to 'draw' those feelings out of him.
is perfectly understandable, to ME anyway, and I don't think us HDHs and HDWs part company at all on that issue. At least I don't!
Choc.
The door's open but the ride ain't free I know you're waitin' for words that I ain't spoken Tonite we'll be free, all the promises will be broken But there's ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away . . .
Blind, Thanks for the well wishes. Still have heard nothing.
The lumpectomy will go smoothly, I'm sure. The only thing I am worried about is that they want me to wean my new baby right away in order to operate. Momma aint down with dat.
I say, if it's not growing and is benign then what is the rush? Why not let the babe get all the goodness from my milk and just chill on the surgery? I am sure they have a scary-sounding and panic-inducing answer to that one, which I will no doubt hear once I get the results of the damn biopsy!!!!!
Choc, I guess the parting company comment was in reference to the fact that some HDW's will get all stubborn and weird and refuse sex if the initiation sucks rotten eggs. Most HDH's will take the initiation and say, "Oh she's a woman she doesn't initiate well but I know what she means when she moves her leg like that and I'm gonna jump on the opportunity."
I suppose what I am saying is that HDW's appear to be much more likely to refuse mercy sex than the fellas. Probably because we as women have been received the message from birth that part of a woman's inherent worth is her desirability. This is specifically related to her femininity, her appearance, etc, and I don't know that the HD men can relate.
Or can you? Do the guys think, "I guess I am just not handsome enough.." and all other sorts of ridiculous thoughts when being rejected? I think it would be easier to take if society was telling you to not take it personally that women just don't want sex as much, etc. The message we women receive is that OF COURSE it is something personal..no man in his right mind would turn down a passionate woman who wants sex 3 times a week. Which is what my H told me last night..that yes a lot of guys would do just that. I argued the point and he replied, "Well if you want a guy who spends all his spare time at a bar and comes home and beats you...BUT...he will fulfill all your sexual desires, then I guess that is your prerogative." Funny how he relates giving in to sexual desire with being a gluttonous and abusive jerkoff. For the record, I know he was just spouting off crap b/c the convo was getting heated, but I think there is a grain of truth in that statement also.
Ok, now I'm way off topic. Can you tell that I am nervous??!
Quote: Anyways... holy macaroni... after reading this thread and reading A TON in PM over the weekend about self-validated intimacy vs. other-validated intimacy and wondering how I'm gonna "get there"... HP and MM are saying that, even after PMing their H's over and over, they still have occasional issues with self-validated intimacy! Are we HDs doomed to live in cycles? Can we ever be happy for more than a few days? *sigh*
Chris, I absolutely have the same fear. After seeing these tireless warriors work SO patiently and diligently on their clashing libido'd marriages, I often wonder how there would be ANY hope for mine, even if I WERE to begin challenging my wife again, which I'm not (for now).
It's just not worth the aggravation, only to STILL have it all screwed up.
I get your drift, and I can see how it would be a little harder for a woman to take that rejection, seeing as how society seems to teach us that "ALL MEN" want sex SO much, that you'd have to be totally undesireable for a man to reject you.
But I can tell you from my own experiences as well as several months of reading my HD soul brothers on this bulletin board, WE DO HURT and take the rejection personally.
Speaking for myself, I cannot STAND "mercy sex," and it is the single main reason behind my self-imposed abstinence for the past few years. As I told my wife once, "People go where they are invited," and I simply NEVER got invited anymore, so I gave up. It simply hurt too much to face that rejection.
If I had to put my finger on it, tho, I don't think I question my LOOKS at that point (I'm above-average looking, always had PLENTY of GFs before marriage, and still get a lot of attention); I may very definitely question my SEXINESS, tho.
Quote: I suppose what I am saying is that HDW's appear to be much more likely to refuse mercy sex than the fellas. Probably because we as women have been received the message from birth that part of a woman's inherent worth is her desirability. This is specifically related to her femininity, her appearance, etc, and I don't know that the HD men can relate.
You know, this raises an interesting question in my head: is my W LD and not initiating because she's seeing her body/appearance as undesirable? If so, and I initiate sex with her, is she seeing this LM as a mercy f*ck type of thing? Tooo many questions! Hmmmm.
Quote: Do the guys think, "I guess I am just not handsome enough.." and all other sorts of ridiculous thoughts when being rejected?
Not me, 'cause I know I'm damn goooood, even for "an old guy" at 35.
Quote: I think it would be easier to take if society was telling you to not take it personally that women just don't want sex as much, etc. The message we women receive is that OF COURSE it is something personal..no man in his right mind would turn down a passionate woman who wants sex 3 times a week.
You see, regardless of how my W thinks I am, I need the intimacy and EC to really want LM. Sure, I look at other women and wonder "what if" (hey, I'm married but I'm not dead!). I could have meaningless sex with others if I wanted to, but I DON'T want to. I want meaningful sex with my W!! I have a difficult time seeing anything with my W as a mercy f*ck or LM just to be accommodating. Ask me in 6 months after I've PMed the crap outta her and I may answer differently.
Crap, now that I've reread what I've written, I dunno if I answered you sufficiently.
