Joyrides and Backslides--The Story of Us

[cinemanymph]

HP,
It just ain't right!! Your H never told a little white lie (or big black one if the sitch required it) to save someones feelings. He never said "that color really doesn't do you justice" when he thought the dress looked horrible? I thought this was inbred in all men who ever heard the question "does this make my butt look fat"? I know that in pregnancy everything takes on a hormonal tinge, and he could cut you some slack.
(((())))
Nymph

[MJontheMend]

You know the other reason why this sux, HP? If you have sex when your contractions start, it speeds up labor. Surprisingly, Mr. Wilson was willing to try this during my 36 hour labor, but before we got a chance I started vomiting and I'm not THAT HD.

[honeypot]

He said last night that he couldn't do the "start labor" sex because what if some semen came out during delivery. I swear, this man thinks of everything.

As IF he would even be able to tell amongst all the other goo!

P.S. He just cooked a gourmet meal for me/us. This from the man who I've never seen cook anything except some occasional scrambled eggs.

[honeypot]

Since I'm an emotional wreck, here is another groaner for you guys:

He keeps telling me he loves me, as a way to cheer me up. (I'm really not in the mood for his song and dance, btw.) I know that he loves me; I don't doubt that. What I DO doubt is whether there is sufficient sexual attraction on his side to keep me interested in this relationship for the rest of my friggin life.

And while I'm on the subject:
How can a person feel romantic love for someone and not want to ML to them also?
How is this romantic love? I am not being sarcastic either. I am wondering how it feels to feel romantic love with no desire. Wouldn't it feel like a best friend love? Or a mother and child love? You know...that deep and fierce love that is impossible to describe in words...is that what it feels like?

I'm not saying he has NO desire for me. It is just not very strong on his own and is very dependent on the level of desire that I am showing him.
I don't get romantic love with a lack of sexual attraction. How is that different from platonic love? Isn't it just platonic love, only on a much stronger level?

I think the lack of sleep is contributing to my melancholy mood and inability to snap back into my normal feistiness. Although, NOP, I did feel a brief spark at your father's words to let him know I was here.

[SolidMechanic]

Dear HP,

I am mystified. It seems so obvious to me, like 2+2. For some LD people, it's more like non-Euclidean geometry. All I can offer is my utmost sympathies, and this musical interlude:

She's So Cold, by the Rolling Stones

I'm so hot for her, I'm so hot for her
I'm so hot for her and she's so cold
I'm so hot for her, I'm on fire for her
I'm so hot for her and she's so cold

I'm the burning bush, I'm the burning fire
I'm the bleeding volcano
I'm so hot for her, I'm so hot for her
I'm so hot for her and she's so cold

Yeah, I tried re-wiring her, tried re-firing her
I think her engine is permanently stalled
She's so cold she's so cold
She's so cold cold cold
Like a tombstone
She's so cold, she's so cold
she's so cold cold cold like an ice cream cone
She's so cold she's so cold
I dare not touch her my hand just froze

Yeah, I'm so hot for hot for her, I'm so hot for her
I'm so hot for her and even so
Put your hand on the heat, put your hand on the heat
Aw C'mon baby, let's go

She's so cold, she's so cold, cold, she's so c-c-c-old
But she's beautiful, though

Yeah, she's so cold

She's so cold, she's so cold
She was born in an arctic zone
She's so cold she's so cold, cold, cold
I dare not touch her my hand just froze

She's so cold, she's so goddamn cold she's so
Cold cold cold she's so cold

Who would believe you were a beauty indeed
When the days get shorter and the nights get long
Lie awake when the rain comes
Nobody will know, when you're old
When you're old, nobody will know
that you was a beauty, a sweet sweet beauty
A sweet sweet beauty, but stone stone cold

You're so cold, you're so cold, cold, cold
You're so cold, you're so cold

I'm so hot for you, i'm so hot for you
I'm so hot for you and you're so cold

I'm the burning bush, I'm the burning fire
I'm the bleeding volcano


Have a good weekend.

Tony

[honeypot]

Tony,
Thanks for the serenade! I appreciate it.

I am slowly trying to pull out of my funk. I mean, I have been through this twice with him already and plenty of times in between the other two pregnancies.
I know how he operates. I guess I am just sick and tired of waiting patiently to see if he decides to develop any desire or form of personal sexuality.

I thought he had but it is becoming evident to me that he was 'using' my own up until recently when I apparently lost my sexuality (in his eyes at least!).

Ah well, tomorrow's another day and I know it will be better. Thank you to all who read and posted today; I'll get it together I promise!

Honeypot

[MJontheMend]

How can a person feel romantic love for someone and not want to ML to them also?
How is this romantic love? I am not being sarcastic either. I am wondering how it feels to feel romantic love with no desire. Wouldn't it feel like a best friend love? Or a mother and child love? You know...that deep and fierce love that is impossible to describe in words...is that what it feels like?

This is an interesting question. The last time I felt romantic love that wasn't at all sexual, I was in the 6th grade. So, sexual immaturity would be one answer, but I don't think that works for your H. There are a lot of things that are romantic but not very sexual IMO; Hallmark cards, teddy bears with hearts on their chest, the music of Barry Manilow etc.

Perhaps, the way to gain some perspective on your question is to ask yourself the opposite. How can a person want to have sex with someone and not feel romantic love? This question is a lot easier to answer if you're HD. I had some pretty great no heartstrings attached sex in my single days, so it's clear to me that the two feelings aren't necessarily linked.

I think the goal of everyone on this board is to get to a place where desire and romantic love are present and evident for both partners most of the time. Right now, you've only got 3 out of 4 present and evident for you. The thing is your H might actually be worse off because he might only have 2 present and evident for him because he is currently out of touch with his desire for you and he might interpret your anger as a lack of romantic love for him. Maybe this is why taking a tough stand works for HD partners. Maybe the bare minimum a marriage needs to survive is 3 out of 4. If the HD partner loses some emotional fusion, the LD partner might experience this as a drop in romantic love, therefore they know they better come up with some desire or the relationship is toast.

[honeypot]

I don't really know what to say about this weekend yet. We had an excellent conversation on Friday night, which did not include any ML.

Then on Saturday the EC was so strong. H even commented on the change in me despite the fact that we did not ML in over a week. I think it was that, during the previous nights' conversation I really felt heard by him. Not that he was just saying what he thought he should but we were really both delving down deep and trying to figure out how this happened and what we will do, both individually and jointly.
I am not a huge conversationalist (I like to talk but like to have discussions on several topics, not carry on endlessly about the same thing..I get bored) but this was really a good one. And it wasn't all stars and rainbows, either. There were some hard hits on both sides. But we held it together and came out okay.

We did ML last night and it was very good, of course. The nice thing was that we were both feeling quite awkward with each other (H has an impossible time getting back 'into' sex when he takes a break..even a break as short as several days). So we shelved the sex for a bit and talked for an hour about our kids and our life, etc. Then we were both sufficiently relaxed with each other we naturally turned toward each other and it went from there. It was nice that this event fell on a Saturday because with H's obssession with sleep, it never would have happened that way on a weeknight. He would have initiated quickly with a "let's get this over with" mentality and neither of us would have felt all that satisfied.

A lot was said on Fri night during our conversation but the most interesting thing to come out of it was the following snippet:

HP: How in tune to your sexuality do you think you are?
Mr.HP: ( not understanding question) You mean do I understand what sexuality is for?
HP: No I am not talking about sexuality from a religious standpoint. I mean, how in tune do you think you are to your OWN sexuality? What does it feel like to you and do you notice that it's there?
MHP: Oh. I notice it's there sometimes. Most of the time, not.
HP: Is it a deliberate thing to suppress it?
MHP: No not really. Sometimes, if I feel the time is not 'right'.
HP: Do you deliberately try to PLACE it there, in the conscious part of your mind, ever?
MHP: No! ( laughs )
HP: Well, lemme ask you this. If you just said to yourself, "I'm going to go to church every day but I won't set my alarm; I'll just see if I wake up in time.." how many days per week do you think you'd make it?
MHP: (beginning to realize where I'm going) Not many, if any at all. What are you suggesting though? How do you do it? Are you telling me you either think of sex all day or you force yourself to think of sex, to keep it in your mind?
HP: No not really. Not at all in fact. Most of the time my sexual urges, or my awareness of my sexuality, are not conscious thoughts. They are more like little blips that I either have time to cultivate into a full blown thought (complete with wishing you were home, etc) or it is a vague tingle down below and a REALLY vague thought that goes something like....seeeeeeeex. ( both laughing )
Most of the time the kids are too disruptive for me to really think any specific thoughts but you know, H, I am always aware of my sexuality. It is still there even if I can't cultivate any thoughts or actually go and have sex right then.
MHP: I don't really do that. I push aside sexual thoughts or feelings and I sure don't deliberately take the time to think of anything sexy.
HP: Is this truly your personality or has it become a habit to do that?
MHP: I don't know.
HP: Cause I'm just thinking that if you spend the majority of your time pushing sexual thoughts to the side, that it would be pretty hard to suddenly push them to the front when you get in bed with me.
MHP: I don't do that, either. I just go with whatever my body is feeling..if it is tired, I want sleep. If I feel horny, I want sex with you.
HP: So you push aside all sexual thoughts and then wonder why you don't feel like having sex when you get in bed? ( both laugh)
MHP: I think I worry too much about the awkwardness between us, too. It is awkward for me to initiate sex when I have waited too long and then I can't feel sexy.
HP: Ok. But you don't really want me initiating either, judging from your behavior towards me...
MHP: Right. I just want to wait until I feel physically horny again.
HP: I don't think it says anything in the Bible about sperm buildup in your balls...I think it is supposed to occur more in your head. (he laughs and carries on about possible Bible passages about his balls and sperm..)

Then he was silent for about 10 minutes. I thought he had fallen asleep. Finally he says that he is taking all this in and that the idea that you have to consciously keep sex in your mind in order for it to happen has never occurred to him.
I leave him to his thoughts and we eventually fall asleep.

He was really thinking. I know it wasn't a technically correct conversation from a PM standpoint, but I don't care. My H can be clueless and sometimes DOES need me to point out the obvious to him in regards to his behavior. (i.e., the idea that if you don't set your alarm for church you will miss it and if you don't plan for or at least allow sexual thoughts to cross your mind, it aint gonna happen)

I don't know what he will do from here. That is his journey, quite honestly.

He did compliment me today on the fact that I am trying to give more kisses and hugs and so I feel at least that my attempted changes are not going too shabbily.

The real test is time, though, huh!

Hope you are having a good weekend..

Cheers,
Honeypot

[MJontheMend]

Go Honeypot! I should probably have the exact same conversation with my H someday.

[honeypot]

Heya Mo!
It really was a good conversation..I don't know if it will have any lasting impact but it felt good to have a heart to heart with him. (btw, he had a few things to discuss too so it wasn't just me peckin away at him)

I really believe that the planning and anticipation aspect of sex is half the battle--maybe even more.

Think about it: When we were dating, H would ask me for a date or we would plan the next time we would see each other. He would think of me throughout the day and what we would do. Then he would come home, shower, making sure to get all his parts squeaky clean (preparing for sex), he would shave extra close (preparing for sex), put on hand lotion (preparing to touch my soft skin), slap on some cologne cause he knows I like it, dress in good lookin clothes in order to appear attractive to me, ETC ETC.

A woman might put on sexy underwear, shave her legs (or more), give herself an extra sexy makeup job, ETC. Both people are planning on having sex that night so it is fresh in their minds. The thinking of the impending sex is what gets them going--not so much the 'newness' and all the other stuff that is so widely touted as reasons for why sex is so good in a new relationship. I mean, that stuff applies too, but my belief is that it is the MENTAL part of it...the anticipation and planning and actual actions being taken (ie, shaving, sexy clothes) that influence how a person feels and the state of mind they are in.

Now, granted, this is a lot easier for me to maintain because my body is helping me along. I know that my natural sex drive is higher than H's and it keeps me in a sexy mood almost all the time. So I recognize and empathize that it is not easy for him.

But I also think that too many LD people think that being HD is a state of hormones and either ya got em or ya don't. I disagree.
I think that anything that you plan for and take steps towards, you will achieve. There will of course be differing levels of desire achieved but it WILL get stronger.

And it's not even about the other person. That's the kicker of the whole thing. My H shaving and lotioning himself up is about HIM being the best self he can be and feeling good and confident and as if he has something to offer me. It is also about his fantasies getting rolling while he is doing those actions.

I would think (though I don't know for certain) that ALL people feel better about themselves when they feel sexy and confident.

Oh, I forgot to add one thing that he said during the conversation: As I was asking him if he was in tune to his sexuality, he said "I am when I am shaved." I said, "What??"
He then went on to say that when he shaves himself he feels very sexy and wants me. When it is too jungle-y down south, he doesn't feel sexy. I was surprised at this (I really don't care, though I do like it when he shaves mostly cause it means that he has made some effort to be sexual!) but it does seem to confirm the theory that desire originates both in the body and the mind as well as what your behavior is. This is not new news to most people but it is to my H.

So there ya go.