You're kind of hitting around the edges of what I was trying to say when I asked about the frequency one actually desires vs. the frequency one perceives that they desire. The issue then was that I was ALWAYS horny and ALWAYS wanting sex. But I didn't feel that my mind was in place where I could accurately judge my desires. I know this isn't making much sense, but the issue came up in trying to set realistic expectations of how often we should ML in order to keep me reasonably happy. If W was available for enthusiastic sex any time I wanted it, would my level of desire be any different than when she's never willing?
That sort of fits with your question about how much is just horniness and how much is due to other reasons. Lately I’ve been getting laid about once a week, and although I still want more than that, I can see a difference in my attitude and desire. When I’m reasonably assured that I will get laid in the foreseeable future, it kind of takes the edge off of the constant horny feeling.
Now if I could just get her to two or three times a week…
Mo, I think you're on to something with that explanation.
I can honestly say that the majority of times I am not going after him, seeking validation, and that I am truly horny and wanting HIM for all the reasons that a person wants to ML to their spouse.
This past weekend....not so much. Saturday I wore the halter dress and did not get a reaction from him, except the unusual manhandling he did while we were in the store. Yesterday I wore a shirt that the last time I wore it, he told me: "I will have sex with you EVERY time you wear that shirt!!" since the black dress didn't do it. Clearly this was a bunch of other validated baloney on my part but, hey, I was on a roll. So the Sex Shirt didn't work either..neither did me getting the kids into bed..I know he would have gone along with me, had I said "We WILL be having sex tonight" but that didn't really appeal to me.
One thing that I said to him last night was this really irrational and awful line: "H, I don't want to have to DO anything. I don't want have to be this person who gets the kids in bed early and is cheerful ALL the time, and gives you hugs and kisses in exactly the way you want them, etc. I just want to BE. I just want to walk across the room and have you want me. I just want the fact that I am your wife to turn you on. I don't want to have to do anything else!!!!!!!!"
I'm telling you, I had a major fit of the whines. I mean, I do think those things but at the same time I know that is not a reasonable way to think and I can't really believe I voiced it. Today I hadn't heard from him and was starting to feel anxious. I HATE feeling like I chase him every day of his life...so I just sat with it and didn't do anything, while still staying in a good mood. He called a minute ago and said that he has had an incredibly busy day. So whew!, that I didn't email any other pursuing and fused junk to him. Today I am doing a much better job at HOM but I feel bad that I had to vomit out all that emotional and hormonal junk in order to be able to pull it off.
I asked if he had anything to do tonight and he replied, Nothing I can say over the phone. I pressed him to be more specific because...you know...my H is famous the world over for making these statements that COULD be taken sexually but there is always an option to backpedal, if he needs to. He never would say what it was but methinks he was flirting...?! Now I've been wrong about this a time or million, so we'll see. I will try not to pounce on him when he walks in and say, Whadja mean by that, huh huh!
It may NOT be reasonable, but you feel it. Am not sure that you should try to turn off those feelings, because IMHO you have a right to be desired by your S. I am just a beginner in the PM journey - if you couldn't tell
I should quit before I get in to trouble. But, I think that while your feelings are real and should not be devalued you also need to learn to not expect your S to see the value in your feelings all the time. Feelings, by thier nature, are very personal. And while your S is the one who you are supposed to depend on (by the old veiw of M) for emotional support and a little validation, you are the only person who can really give that support and validation. Now someone please tell me I am wrong because now I feel even more lonely. Or tell me how to properly sythesize my thoughts so that I can give up on my percieved need for outside validation.
I will now get off my soap box and stop preaching to myself! I hope I listen to me and I thank you all for your consideration in letting me ramble on.
Jeff
"As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out the bottom of his head." Garion from Castle of Wizardry. And Jeff is obviously in love.
Jeffro, Yes they are my feelings and my true feelings at that, but that doesn't mean they are fit for me to vomit them out on H, kwim?
His preference is that I do these things to make the atmosphere more inviting for him to want sex. I have agreed to that. My preference is that he initiate sex more frequently and we have a regular sex life. He has agreed to that.
So we each have areas to work on and be concerned about. I don't think it's fair, at this point, to say that I don't want to do those things and he should just be overcome with desire simply because I am in the same room with him. I DO want him to feel that way but I have no right to dump it on him and make him feel guilty about it..or that he is less of a husband because he doesn't feel like that.
In other words, I needed to shut my yap and I didn't.
Btw, I don't mind doing any of the things that I listed. They are all part of my daily routine anyway. What I was trying to convey to H is that I want to be able to sashay across the room and have him be drooling. Well this is not a reasonable expectation. In fact, I don't remember a time when this ever happened (with him anyway!) so I am the whacko one.
onward I go..I have a positive feeling about tonight based on his earlier (and cryptic comment). Dear God, don't let me have misinterpreted this one. I don't think I am hormonally stable enough to handle his twisty words!
Quote: The issue then was that I was ALWAYS horny and ALWAYS wanting sex. But I didn't feel that my mind was in place where I could accurately judge my desires.
If you are using sex or food to fill emotional needs, then you will almost always be horny or hungry. If you never get enough sex or food to satisfy your physical needs, then you will almost always be horny or hungry. This is why I think it is valid to think about what might be a "normal" amount of sex for an adult human. This is just the same as thinking about what a "normal' amount of calories might be. If you told me that your were trying to get by on 200 calories a day, I would say "You must be starving!". This is the same reaction that I had when you indicated that you were only having sex twice a year.
If I felt that my desire for sexual frequency was way off the charts, I would have to consider whether it was fair of me to request that much sex from my H. After all, I would feel a bit put out by a H who wanted it 3x a day . I think I could be content, if I could count on my H to initiate 2x a week and I could count on him to respond favorably to the random initiation from me about once a week. The hardest part of achieving this goal is going to be the "count on" part. I'm afraid I've been starving so long now, I'm like someone who needs to keep a stash of food in every closet "just in case".
I don't know if there's a single HD spouse on this board who hasn't gone through a period of complete starvation. Is there anyone posting here whose problem has always been within the realm of normalcy? For instance, a H who wants it 3x a week with a W who wants it 3x a month. The closest to "normal" situation posters are mostly LD women. It might seem like some of us who have been successful in "getting fed" are now being sort of gluttonous, but I think it's the fear of starving again rather than the desire for an all you can eat buffet that is motivating us.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
So you are saying that when I have similar feelings I should shut my trap and suck it up? LOL!! Willing to do that. As usual, my own nawing resentment is coloring my response, because that is the way my W behaved in our beginning R. She wanted it all the time. Maybe I should just lurk and not spew my Vitroulous (spelling) poison everywhere. And just remember - most of what I say has a double edge on in for a purpose. Cutting myself and bleading is kind of like leaching - you feel weak and bad, but new blood replaces the old.
Jeff <- who should shut up even though he thinks more freely (less inhibition) on 2 hours of sleep
"As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out the bottom of his head." Garion from Castle of Wizardry. And Jeff is obviously in love.
Well, TiredOne, I think that if you are having a reasonable request then you should voice it. If ya know you are being a psycho and asking for too much, then yeah you should shut da yap.
That was what I was saying in my original post. I don't WANT to do these things but the next part I said (I want you to just drool because I'm your wife), well, that's just hogwash. I shoulda kept it to myself but, man, I was spewing all kinds of crap yesterday. I even was rude to my FIL and that is one thing you will almost never catch me being--outright rude. I just had no patience and by the time bedtime rolled around I was crabby and wanting H to be my salve and smooth over my hormones, my displaced sense of self due to being fat and pg, ease my horniness...man I wanted him to do it all and be it all for me last night. I knew I was out of line but I was too far gone in my mood to get it reeled back in. Today is another day, though, and you won't hear me whining about this same shtuff tomorrow.
No way to go to bed cause' I am watching S1 right now. I can tell you that he is a life saver, a joy, a cause for concern, and (something I am careful to not give voice to right now) the only reason I am not a WAH.
I can't blame anybody else - after 5 years of treating the symptom (sex) and not the disease (communication) - I totally get what's comming to me.
I now know that it is unreasonable to expect my W to e the hormone fueled sex fiend she was when we met, but I stll wish with a sigh.
OH NO! I refuse to make this thread about me - thanks for the clarification. I will paper journal more and hit the high lights on another thread if I get the chance any time soon.
Jeff
"As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out the bottom of his head." Garion from Castle of Wizardry. And Jeff is obviously in love.
Quote: I really don't have that option to go out when I'm upset at the lack of sex. My kids are little and they need me here. This is, in part, an excuse and partly truth. In a little while I will have a newborn who is dependent on me for nourishment so I will not be able to leave it at all.
So, for me, the answer to that question is to immerse myself in my kids and let that fill the hole.
We all have ways of separating ourselves from our loved ones when they disappoint us. Honey fills her time with her children, which is a wonderful thing, but could also alienate her husband if it becomes unbalanced. My wife is a stay-at-home mom who has immersed herself in the lives of the children so deeply that she no longer seeks companionship or love from me. When I go to work, I can get mentally occupied so that the marriage doesn't have an impact. But then, sometimes when I walk through the door at home, the pressure of expectations that I don't think I can meet causes me to withdraw: I'll go read something, or go to the computer and play a game. I am only there in appearance. Dave escapes on his bike for a couple of hours. I've done that myself recently.
Status quo is very easy. Going along to get along is the easiest trap to fall into. After so many little cuts, it is natural to put up walls or to escape. We all know it is a dead end. Our spouses bump into these walls and don't know how to get through them, so they give up trying. They try to find us, but eventually they stop looking.
If I make myself available, if I tear down my walls, maybe my wife will bump into me accidently, and ask me for a hand.
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Tony, This was a very eloquent post. I wish your wife could see and hear the pain you project here; it would certainly assist her in her 'change'.
My husband is at more risk of alienating himself with our kids, isn't that funny? He actually did this for a time with D4, who was D2 at the time, and it was sad. Sad for me, sad for her because she was rapidly turning into a spoiled princess, sad for him because he had no life other than her and her demands, etc. It took a long time for me to undo the damage he did by making her the center of his life (as opposed to his wife) but as she nears the bend towards 5, I can honestly say that my kid rocks. He would get home from work, we'd eat supper and then she would 'force' him to go back in her room and shut the door and they'd play together until it was her bedtime. I sat by myself and watched TV, an activity I'm not fond of in the first place. She would shut the door so that he was not tempted to come talk to me and so that she had him trapped. They'd play blocks, read books, whatever, but if I attempted to come join the party, she'd freak. She knew she had a competitor. It was TOTALLY unnatural and H was actually relieved when I put my foot down. I will stop now cause I am making my H sound like a wimpy weirdo, but suffice it to say that his parenting skills were way out of whack from day one. He has always been super-willing to put me on the back burner..always super-confident that my love is strong and not going anywhere..this both bothers me and makes me feel good, oddly enough!
Anyway, just wanted to say that it is a rare day when I bury myself in my kids (any more than normal, I am a SAHM) but when I do it feels sooooo good that I know why women do it. They love me, they want me, they are happy with little gestures, they do not withhold from me--they're the best!
However, they are a secondary reason I got married. He is the primary and will stay the primary until we are no longer together. Sometimes it is a conscious effort to do this, but a necessary one.
