HDW needs HELP !!

[NelJ]

AtlDave & mandksdad

As I thought I needed to express the problem of getting offers of HD friends in some way, although thought about it seriously for a long time, I express it in my most recent letter as below :

I am disappointed when other men show interest in me especially because you are the only person I want to be with. I do not want to feel deprived of something that is so important to me, to feel a connection with the person I love so dearly.

This was only a small part of my letter which expressed MY hurt, disappointment and anger at certain things and my appreciation, thankfulness and love for other things.

Still not sure if that was the right thing to do, because I am still awaiting some response from the letter.

[NelJ]

Greeneyedlass

Thank you for your reply, and please don't be jealous, I only expressed my current situation, not what has happened in the past ... and I also didn't express that the intimacy that we share after waiting 4-6 weeks is not mind-blowing and sometimes not even remotely satisfying by any stretch of the imagination.

In answer to your questions: No, my H has not been checked medically, although it is also my thoughts that he is in working order and that a hormone inbalance is not part of the problem - to understand why he hasn't been to the doctor, you would have to fully understand the male Aussie Ocker.

As fair as councelling, I have asked if he thought we needed councelling as far as our relationship goes to which he responded very angrily 'If you think we need it' ... this was only a couple of weeks ago and I have thought about revisiting the question but haven't. I know it would be a good idea though but feel we need councelling more in a 'sex therapist' kind of way rather than a 'relationship therapist' but am not sure that he would agree at all because he doesn't think there is a problem .... denial must be a nice place to be.

Thanks again for your input and I will certainly consider it further.

I just wish he would read SSM, so that he could understand how this makes me feel.

I wish you well too.

[NotATLDave]

NelJ,

1. Don't worry about your H not wanting to read SSM...that's expected and normal.

2. Relax a little. I see lots of anxiety in you. You are starting to "watch" your H now. This is a natural part of the process (I did it at first too and it drove me to the point of insanity) it's not a good thing.

3. Don't execute anything for at least a few weeks...especially considering that you haven't read PM yet. Use this time to gather info from here and your books. This is a long, tricky process and a misstep now can undermine things later. I'm speaking from experience again.

4. Stop writing letters. I did this in the beginning out of fear and lack of confidence in myself / position. It's doesn't have any effect and can even make you look weaker. If you need to ensure that you are clear, then make notes to yourself.

5. What's with this?....

asked if he thought we needed councelling as far as our relationship goes to which he responded very angrily 'If you think we need it'

Why ask him if he thinks you need it? As far as he is concerned, you don't need anything...that's why he threw it back at you. His anger wasn't just out of your desire to see a C, but the fact that you put the decision onto him. This quote has lots of "fusion" in it. In your quote, you are acknowledging that there is an entity called "we". The thing that's going to cook your noodle after reading PM is what this type of thinking this represents. Think about his response if you said the following....

NelJ: "I'm struggling to find out what is going on...I want more passion in this marriage but I don't feel like you are interested in giving it. Is there something that I could do to motivate you to be more passionate towards me? If you can't answer, then I would like to go to a C to see if they can help figure out what to do"

Note that there is a subtle semantic trick in there....it's ambiguous whether or not you wanted him to come to counseling. If he doesn't want to go...then go alone a few times. I guarantee that there are at least 10 sessions worth of things for you to work on for yourself. He might not even need to go. Remember, a counsellor cannot motivate your H. Only you can. I made the mistake of dragging my W to a C and nothing happened. I recently asked my W to set some time aside for a talk...she mocked me by sarcastically saying..."are we going to talk about the relaaaaationship". And I calmly said "there is no 'relationship'...it's just you, me, our individual wants and needs, and what we choose to share. I just wanted to tell you something that was bothering me".

I'll wait until you read PM to help you more. I just wanted to give you a primer on how your view of the world is about to turn upside down. It's quite fun.

[NelJ]

Thanks for the reply AtlDave

1. Don't worry about your H not wanting to read SSM...that's expected and normal.

I am not worried about him not reading as I never in my wildest dreams imagined that he would ... my dilemma there is that I found myself in tears while reading it because for the first time someone had described what I truly am feeling, and I do want him to know that.

2. Relax a little. I see lots of anxiety in you. You are starting to "watch" your H now. This is a natural part of the process (I did it at first too and it drove me to the point of insanity) it's not a good thing.

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean by 'watch' him ?? But I do know that I am anxious, scared, frustrated etc on the inside although I am maintaining the happy, confident, glad-to-be-me face.

3. Don't execute anything for at least a few weeks...especially considering that you haven't read PM yet. Use this time to gather info from here and your books. This is a long, tricky process and a misstep now can undermine things later. I'm speaking from experience again.

I will hang in there but to be completely honest I cannot see myself fighting through all of this confusion and frustration for another ten years, let alone a lifetime. There must be more to life ??

4. Stop writing letters. I did this in the beginning out of fear and lack of confidence in myself / position. It's doesn't have any effect and can even make you look weaker. If you need to ensure that you are clear, then make notes to yourself.

OK - easy !!

5. What's with this?....

asked if he thought we needed councelling as far as our relationship goes to which he responded very angrily 'If you think we need it'

Why ask him if he thinks you need it? As far as he is concerned, you don't need anything...that's why he threw it back at you. His anger wasn't just out of your desire to see a C, but the fact that you put the decision onto him. This quote has lots of "fusion" in it. In your quote, you are acknowledging that there is an entity called "we". The thing that's going to cook your noodle after reading PM is what this type of thinking this represents. Think about his response if you said the following....

NelJ: "I'm struggling to find out what is going on...I want more passion in this marriage but I don't feel like you are interested in giving it. Is there something that I could do to motivate you to be more passionate towards me? If you can't answer, then I would like to go to a C to see if they can help figure out what to do"

Note that there is a subtle semantic trick in there....it's ambiguous whether or not you wanted him to come to counseling. If he doesn't want to go...then go alone a few times. I guarantee that there are at least 10 sessions worth of things for you to work on for yourself. He might not even need to go. Remember, a counsellor cannot motivate your H. Only you can. I made the mistake of dragging my W to a C and nothing happened. I recently asked my W to set some time aside for a talk...she mocked me by sarcastically saying..."are we going to talk about the relaaaaationship". And I calmly said "there is no 'relationship'...it's just you, me, our individual wants and needs, and what we choose to share. I just wanted to tell you something that was bothering me".

What I did actually say was closer to your suggestion than the brief description I gave and knowing him as well as I do, I think his response was more so that if I 'dragged' him along to councelling he would have yet another excuse to be pi##ed off with me. He is definitely not a councelling sort of person and I therefore would never drag him along, although I am very aware that I am as much to blame for the state of our relationship and would be willing to go to councelling if I thought it would help.

I will be awaiting the arrival of PM with great anticipation and hope that it is as enlightening as you suggest.

Thanks again.

[NotATLDave]

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean by 'watch' him ??

Sorry, this might not apply to you yet. As you start "working" on things...you will inevitably paying close attention to his behaviors as a guage of your progress. It's very hard to be focused on "repairing" things without watching the other person closely.

I will hang in there but to be completely honest I cannot see myself fighting through all of this confusion and frustration for another ten years, let alone a lifetime. There must be more to life ??

Don't worry...it won't take that long. When I was starting this process, I would have never envisioned that I would be where I am right now in 6 months. The confusion and frustration will minimize to a manageable level as you increase your understanding of things and unless you are a slow learner or averse to introspection, it shouldn't take to long to feel like things are going in the right direction.

He is definitely not a councelling sort of person

This is just my opinion but I'm very skeptical of marital counseling unless it is someone who practices Schnarch's "Crucible Approach" and integrates individual, couple and sex therapy as an "whole". Tim has asked his C to read PM and help him work through it. This would be a great thing to try on your own. If I could have gone back to the beginning of this process, I wish I could have secretly worked on myself while living in the "roomate" state...it would have sparred her lots of my missteps and preserves some lost dignity. Plus, the shock factor would have been excellent.