Quote: If that hadn’t already complicated things enough, then some of you start dropping bombs like, “I will no longer accept mercy/duty/unenthusiastic sex”, or, “Why would you even want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you?” So let’s see, I want frequent, enthusiastic sex, I want my W to be happy, I want to be honest with her, I don’t want mercy/duty/unenthusiastic sex, I don’t want to pressure W to do anything that she finds truly abhorrent, I want her to want me (or to satisfy PM, I want her to give the appearance of wanting me), … Unfortunately, those aren’t all compatible. And I haven’t even gotten into my reactions to her reactions yet.
Quote: The BJ isn’t the issue; the issue is getting her to do something that she really doesn’t want to do. If she chooses not to do whatever it is, I’m unhappy that isn’t doing it, and presumably, she’s at least somewhat unhappy in the knowledge that she’s letting me down in a area that I’ve told her is important to me. If, on the other hand, she chooses to do whatever it is, she’s unhappy because she’s having to do something that disgusts her, and I’m unhappy because I KNOW that I have put her into a position where she felt that she had to do something that she considered to be disgusting.
And this, my HD brethren of the Board, is why I am going BALD, and GREY, and am generally in a constant state of confusion, puzzlement and despair.
To be honest, this whole THING just makes me dizzy, and proves to me once again that God must REALLY have a twisted sense of humor...
Quote: So which of the two of us has the most important feelings? Is her desire for anal sex more or less important than my desire to avoid it? Are any of you seriously suggesting that I should completely disregard her feelings and desires?
This may be a case where you agree to disagree and attempt to find a work-around a solution. Neither feelings are most important... but they're both important enough to be "issues" to resolve. It sure would be nice to give the "wanting person" satisfaction while the 180-degree person is satisfied as well. *sigh*
How about you set up a piston-drive machine with a jelly PPA attached so your W can enjoy anal sex while you watch?
Based upon the past five weeks, I may be barking up a tree that’s been cut down, chopped up, and hauled away, but let me tell you what this is really about. Where I’m really coming from is a lifetime of wanting to ML with a woman who absolutely did not want to. Her every word and every action made it abundantly clear that she didn’t just not like it, but actively disliked it. I’m asking this on the assumption that the tree is still there and standing tall, and that this past five weeks has been an aberration.
During the past 28 years the EC has been all over the map, but the times it actually lead to ML were so few and far between that they had to be considered flukes. When over 28 years our average was significantly below once a year, those times were statistically irrelevant. So I’m looking at a lot of history during which our desires were diametrically opposed. With that history, my response is to say that in theory one of us could modify our position. In theory I could have changed my POV, recognized, understood, and accepted that ML was simply beyond her abilities, and not felt deprived. But in reality, in 28 years that never happened: I always felt deprived. In theory she could have recognized how much it meant to me and how much I enjoyed it. My pleasure could have fueled hers to the point that she enjoyed it as well. But in 28 years that never happened either.
Tomorrow will be six weeks since we started this new once-a-week pattern, so it’s possible that after all this time, things have actually changed. But six weeks hasn’t erased the previous 28 years. I still feel like it’s all going to come crashing down any day now and I’ll be back in the desert. So while the question might not apply to my immediate sitch, I’m still in that mindset. It’s a question I struggled with for years, but could never answer. If she does try to revert back to the old pattern, I do intend to call her on it, but this question will be back on the front burner.
Quote: But six weeks hasn’t erased the previous 28 years.
Nor will it. Shouldn't even expect that (and I'm sure you don't). But what you really have to do is put that 28 years behind you, and start from scratch. Just totally forget about it. You can't change it, so why worry about it? To pick at it just feeds your grudge feelings. Let it go. When you can do that, you will no longer be controlled by it, and I predict you will have a new feeling of freedom and empowerment. Don't let that old ghost get the better of you...
Hey WB. Does the fact that ML is a "socially acceptable" facet of marriage, and anal sex is arguably not, make a difference in the PM equation here? For example, let's take BJs and anal our of the equation, and just focus on missionary-position sex. You get married to a woman who says she is repulsed by it, but hey, one of the MAIN reasons I married this woman was so I could stop hanging out in bars and hoping to pick up a woman for sex. What if we add to the equation that sex occurred with this woman prior to the wedding? Don't I, at that time, have more of a "high moral ground" in arguing that it should be her who moves more toward the center in a compromise?
And don't wuss out with that "okay, you're right, but you're still not going to get laid" argument!
Perhaps your crucible question is, "Am I willing to stay in a R limited to my present sexual experiences?"
If so, then drop the BJ/anal/whatever idea. You've already identified that your W doesn't want to. Therefore, w/o an epiphany (which you have no control over), she won't do any more than she's doing now.
If not, you'll have to screw your balls on tight and let her know.
Is it possible that you're operating from, "Yes, I will stay, but I reallllllly want her to do more!"? (How very un-PMish of you.)
Quote: Is it possible that you're operating from, "Yes, I will stay, but I reallllllly want her to do more!"? (How very un-PMish of you.)
Uhhhh, yes. We’ve already established that I WILL stay. So I’m just looking to improve the sitch as much as I possibly can.
In all fairness, things have been much better lately. I don’t know what triggered the change, but it’s almost like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. My W has been taken away and replaced with a pod person that looks and sounds just like her. I’ve commented at length about ML five times in five weeks, but it goes beyond ML. W seems more cheerful and we seem to have much more of an EC both in and out of bed. It could be that I’m just much happier and have a better attitude now that I’ve been getting laid, but I prefer to think that changes in myself have triggered a real change in her. I guess time will tell.
WB, I am going to go out on a limb here and propose that her changes are from the increased lovemaking, as well. This was one of the things that surprised my H the very most about resurrecting our sex life. He was genuinely surprised at how much happier he feels, the ease with which he is able to deal with stressors that at one time would have sent him over the edge. He can't believe the way he used to act. Just taking the physical edge off and whatever else happens, chemically, in a human beings' body when you ML benefits both people--regardless of whose idea it was to do it in the first place.
When he said that I wanted to say, Well what did ya think would happen??!? But I didn't. I just said, Yeah it's really great how well designed the system is!
There also has to be a certain amount of mental satisfaction in knowing that she is making her husband happy and satisfying him, instead of being a complete failure in this one area of being a wife. I can't imagine what a number that would do to a person--to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that they were sexual failures. It certainly wouldn't motivate them to jump right in and rectify things.
Glad to hear that things continue to go well. Sorry I did not respond to your earlier question; I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say so I said nothing.
