Why Schnarch may not work for us

[TheNewChris]

I have all these questions popping into my head... ugh.

If we (the HD peoples) are reading PM and our LD spouses are not, how does that help us? Shouldn't we "give them" the inside information on how we want the R to go? Hmmmmm...

- Chris.

[Tim2point0]

Reading PM (and other books) helps US because it gives us the tools to become stronger and better able to be our own person, which will ALWAYS help us, no matter what else happens. It also helps us to be able to find ways to state our desires and then maintain a positive attitude in the face of doubts, fears and rejection voiced by our partner. In the end, I think it gives us the best possible chance at a better R. But we won't get there by "filling them in" on how the R should be... we change ourSELVES, become more ourSELVES, and just that "simple" act will force the partner to re-evaluate themselves, and possibly grow. Or flee. But something...

[SuperDave]

Chris,
For a HD, the first reaction after reading SSM is to want the LD to read it too because it describes our position so accurately. We want them to understand our frustration and if they hear it from someone else or read it in a book perhaps they will get the message. I tried really hard to get her to read it but the more I pushed the more resistant she became. Now, five months on I'm glad she did not read it or PM because it gives me the advantage of knowledge she does not have. If she had read the books she would be able to read me better and she could neutralise my efforts by saying something like "Don't give me the old 'two choice dilemma' trick". I have just bought her a book - "How to make great love to a man" (which she said she might read but probably will not) - and was actually disappointed to find that the first half is all SSM/PM psychology.
What I am trying to say is to reiterate what Tim says. The books are for YOU.
To give you some hope. My W is very LD - I'd say she is ND - and yet last night we did some lovemaking after only three days since the last time and she lay on top of me for the first time since we married. It wasn't all plain sailing but this morning I feel good about it. I may elaborate on my other thread because I think I need some help...
SD

[waytoo]

"I feel commited to you based upon our history, children and shared stuff, but I don't feel passion towards you. I would really love to feel a sense of passion towards you and it will require you to do x,y,z...what do you need from me to do that?"

Can you please rephrase this so I can say this to my LDH? I am a HDW at my wits end. And when I say (I'll actually write it) this to him, is it ever appropriate to say I will leave after a certain amount of time that this isn't happening? Say, in a month if this isn't happening, I'm planning to leave? Or do I just put it out there and then just leave one day?

btw- I'm new here. We've been together 12 years, married 6. He's had affairs (most EA, but not all). I found out about them over 2 years ago. The LD problem started in the first year of our relationship, but I thought everything else was so good that I felt selfish leaving. After I found out about the affairs I realized that everything else was not so good. Since then we've flown to Colorado and had intensives with Ruth Morehouse and have been in therapy with a PM therapist for almost a year.

I've had more days lately where I envision us separated. When he's out of town I sometimes feel relieved, and other times I miss him. But I am starting to feel OK about getting separated. I'd rather be happy with him.

Anyway - any rephrasing would be appreciated. I've never actually requested specific things (other than kiss me back when I kiss you, don't tense up when I hug you), and that has gotten better, but is such a small step after so long. We do have sex, and once he gets into it, he is exceptionally good at "pleasing" - but doesn't have a clue of anything that "he" enjoys. Oh - now I'm rambling, this would be better in a whole new thread.
Can you rephrase for HDW?

[SolidMechanic]

Dear waytoo,

I don't know too much about PM, or how to rephrase things so that they will come out right for you. I don't know your situation, I don't really know what you want or what you are willing to sacrifice.

But it seems to me that if you can find the courage and the strength to stand up for yourself and what you want, maybe you will be OK. You won't get what you want, not right away, maybe not at all. But you will feel better about yourself. And your husband might listen.

I think it is a good idea to write things down, because the process will make your thoughts clear and concise. But I wouldn't write him a letter. It's difficult to talk about these things because you know there is likely to be some sort of negative reaction. But I think you should tell him to his face, looking him straight in the eye. That way he can see your strength and resolve. He will know you aren't fooling around.

Are you really ready to walk? A lot of people (present company included) throw around the D word without being serious, which I think just undermines your position. On the other hand, I think a one month deadline might not be enough time for any realistic chance for change.

Welcome to the forum. I salute your courage and wish you good luck .

SM

[NotATLDave]

I don't have enough info to help you. I very sorry.

Anyway - any rephrasing would be appreciated

There is no gender-specific stuff in that quote. Also, my question to you would be..."what do you really want?"

I'll actually write it

I hope you are not saying that you will write it in a note to him...are you? Writing notes like this to your spouse is the worst things you can ever do and it reflects poorly on your esteem. As you become more differentiated, you will learn how to hold onto yourself, and calmly assert what you need without worrying what his response will be. It's an exercise for yourself. He might not respond at all. But you owe it to yourself to try. The LD/ND issue in your marriage gives you "material" to fix these issues with yourself because you will find that you will love yourself much more when you exercise these assertions. You will inadvertently limit your spouses options as you stand your ground.

I sometimes feel relieved

This is a indication of fusion. Scharch talks about young adults who purposely move away from their parents to avoid being "controlled". Well, that's because of a "fused" relationship between parent and child. The parent's differentiation has a huge affect on a child's ability to differentiate.