I have spent yet another sleepless night in turmoil which is bad news because I have been so successful at self soothing recently. I got to thinking that in our severe cases PM methods will make matters worse not better. Perhaps Tim and Atl can put me right on this. In an ideal world we would all be married to someone who loves us exactly as we love them - we would have a "reflected sense of self". In reality we are all working towards the goal of a reflected sense of self. We want our partner to desire us as much as we desire them. On the other side of the coin our LD partners want a reflected sense of there selves too. They want us to be independent, un-needy, celibate and contented with that just as they are. Schnarch suggests that we remain close to our partner while maintaining a strong sense of self. We make disclosures of what we want from our R then hold on to ourselves through the rejection using self soothing and self validation. Eventually the message will get through. Other techniques such as hugging until relaxed and eyes open sex increase the intimacy and quality of the R. Although I think this method would work well in a non sex-starved relationship that has just lost it's sparkle, I believe it (or my application of it) is failing me because it is giving my W more of a reflected sense of self. I have reduced my loving behaviour at great emotional cost to myself and have self-soothed through it. She is being "pestered" less which is what she wants. I am making disclosures ("pressure") that I want us to develop a passionate marriage in which we participate equally but this works against her reflected sense of self and makes her feel uncomfortable so must be eliminated. As an optimistic HD my hope is that my disclosures will eventually be seen by her as quite reasonable and she will stop feeling pressured and break through her gridlock. As an LD with a very strong personality she is getting used to my disclosures and is gaining in strength to a point where she can cope with the pressure quite easily and dismiss my disclosures as immature and rediculous. I then roll over and self-soothe leaving her untouched. Eventually I will run out of ways to disclose the same old stuff and give up my quest for passion. She will have what she wants, celibacy and a reflected sense of self. And I never even got to the "The Hug" let alone the eyes open sex. SD - Tell me I'm wrong Tim, Atl, hairdog, honeypot and anyone else who knows me.