moving forward II -- it's a bright, sun-shiny day!

[Nevanna]

Couple of interesting convos today...

While H was sleeping, he had a really bad dream. I went in when he called me, and laid down on the bed to hold him. He told me, in the dream, that I had made friends with this married guy with lots of money. That the married guy bought me all kinds of stuff, but all he really wanted was to get me into bed. But, that I didn't see that. In the dream, I was hanging out with the guy over at his house, and had invited H to come over as well. But he had decided he was going over there to get me to come home. He was frustrated because the guy obviously wanted to have sex with me, but I just didn't see it. I listened, and validated, and talked to him until he realized it was just a dream and he felt better. I really wanted to tell him that that was how I had felt about xrm (although she didn't exactly have any money), but I just resisted the urge and reassured him.

When H woke up, I told him about this guy who I thought was hitting on me at the pool, but I wasn't too sure. He invited me to a house party. H said I should go. I said I would like to, it's not that I don't want to get out and meet new people, but I don't want to go a party that a guy invited me to. I'm not sure what he was thinking, and I'm so gun-shy about the whole A business that I don't want to set myself/us up for any more problems. (Especially since this last time, H's friend turned out to be delusional...and, well, crazy...)

I told H my reasons--how I had done all of this reading on how A's start. And after everything we've both been through, I don't want to put myself in the position--because the line between friendship and EA is sooo hard to see.

He asked me what the stages were, so I gave him a quick rundown. How it usually starts out as a friend of the opposite gender. Then you hang out more and talk. Then you start sharing personal details about things. After that it's "this person understands me like no one else did." (He cringed--I mentioned xow, because that's what he always said about her. I told him it was okay, we both know better now.) Then you start to feel an attraction, but know you don't want to do anything. (I pointed out H said this about xrm, which was why I was so uptight about her.) Then the two people admit their "feelings" to each other, but decide not to do anything because it would hurt other people. Then they have this "secret love"...which turns into they feel like they have found their "soulmate." And then you have your affair.

He was pretty interested, asked what else I had learned. I told him some sites I had run across mentioned activities you should avoid to help prevent affairs. He asked what those were. I said personal conversations, and also anything that was like a "date" activity--such as going out to eat together.

H got kind of paranoid, since he had breakfast with a female coworker earlier in the day, and they had wound up talking about some personal stuff. He said he was afraid he might give her the wrong impression. H also said he was going to offer to give her a ride whenever she needed it (she doesn't have a car), but that now he thought that wasn't a good idea. He said he didn't want to get into a situation like he had with xrm.

I was pretty surprised at how receptive he was. Not only did he listen, but he considered a different angle on his actions. Which wasn't what I was trying to do! I was trying to explain to H why I was being sooo careful in regards to MF's and myself. I basically don't want H to think that I'm having an EA or to feel left out like I have. Maybe I'm being overly careful, but I'm just so sensitive to the whole idea right now. The only guy I feel okay to hang out with is BIL2.

Later, while we were getting ready to go out, I apologized for my MF a few months back. (Just before he started hanging around xow.) I told him I realized now that MF had bothered him, and if he had told me, I wouldn't have spent so much time with him. He said it wasn't that I spent time with him...it was something else...but that he felt there was no reason to get upset, so he hadn't told me. I told H that I was just trying to learn how to make friends. (I was always an incredibley shy person--probably bordered on a social phobia.) And that I had never asked anybody to hang out with me before--I had always just gone when invited. That with MF, all I was trying to do was learn to be more outgoing. He said he knew that, and didn't blame me. But I feel better for apologizing. I know with me, I wish he would just tell me that some of his activies with xrm were inappropriate--it would mean a lot to me. So I was trying to give him the same thing.

Then, not sure how it came up, I mentioned how I had taken his glasses from the bathroom and put them on the bedstand this morning for him so he would be able to find them easily. I asked him if he noticed when I did those things, or if he did and just didn't mention it.

He asked if he seem unappreciative, and I just said I wasn't sure if he just wasn't saying anything or he didn't notice I did those little things. He said he did notice. I told him that it was just nice to hear it--that WOA work nicely for me.

Then we got into a discussion of 5LL. Mine being touch, then WOA. H's are touch and acts of service. (WOA actually work really well on him.) How neither of us needed gifts that much. This carried over to analyzing how the 5LL's worked with other people.

H totally got it--and thought it was interesting. How different people express love differently. We had fun examing different people that we knew. It was like someone had turned on a lightbulbe for him.

He got kind of stuck on xrm, though. Decided that she was just selfish and self-absorbed...that she wanted gifts and WOA and acts of service and QT. But never gave anything--except, maybe QT--in return. That she was high-maintenance and annoying, and he would never want to deal with someone like that.

It's nice to know that H is so receptive to this kind of information. He actually finds the 5LL fascinating--probably because he's pretty interested in people, in general. I'm going to the 5LL book after I get paid, that should be an interesting read for both of us.

[Nevanna]

Not much for the weekend. I was feeling very cooped up--no money until the new salary kicks in. H is feeling veeeery clingy--kind of getting on my nerves, but I actually understand the feeling, so it's not too bad.

He's still worried about the whole doctor thing. (The appointment is this afternoon.) I'm okay. He thinks it's weird. I told him I was upset and worried for a few hours, and now there's no reason to worry until I see what the doctor has to say. (DB at it's finest--leaking over into other areas of my life! )

H even had offers from a couple of people to go out Sunday. He told me he turned them down because he had promised to spend time with me. (:D Pre-bomb source of stress...H always ditching me at the last minute to go out.) I said I wanted to go out, and asked if he wanted to go anyway. H said the idea hadn't occurred to him, but that he would rather go home and cuddle anyway. (So we stayed in...also saves on gas right now.)

I was in a weird mood yesterday. Finally tracked it down...this time a year ago is when things got really strange between us. When xow was heavily influencing him. I realized that I was just dwelling... H caught on that I was really somewhere else, and I finally told him why. He just gave me a big hug and apologized.

I went to bed a little late. We were watching a movie, and I didn't realize what time it was. He put me to bed...

When he came to bed, he was upset again. (I've noticed he gets upset when he's tired.) I can't remember exactly what he was saying...but there were a lot of apologies and "I can't believe I acted that way..." H is really embarassed and ashamed of the way he treated me. I try not to bring it up--I know how bad he feels. I think he's also very anxious about this appointment. He asked me to hold him, and I did. I tried to give him a massage, but when you're tired, it doesn't work too well.

He was pretty clingy when I left for work this morning. Kept asking me if I was okay (about the doctor). I really am calm. I think he's never seen me this way before, and isn't sure what to think about it. I also think he keeps asking because he's not. I'm almost certain it's just an infection...I'm prone to those, anyway.

[Nevanna]

Okay, so I had the doctor's visit. It was interesting. H picked me up from work. He was really, really uptight. Very jittery. He actually described it as waiting for the executioner. I am glad that he went with me, though.

The doctor gave me a lot of info, which I'm going to try to distill down to the important stuff. Bottom line: my pap said that I have "unclassifed" cells. Meaning that I don't have cancer. But...they did run a test on the sample, and I do have HPV in my system. HPV being the virus that can cause cervical cancer. (But doesn't mean it will.)

The doctor also emphasized that it wasn't necessarily sexually transmitted--that it didn't mean I had gotten it from H. That it's the same virus as the one that gives you warts on your hands. (Which I have had in the past.) So it doesn't mean it came from him.

Anyway, I need to go back for another procedure (colposcopy??) so that the doctor can actually take a look at my cervix to look for any indications of cancer. I guess the percentages are still really low... If there is anything there, then I will need a biopsy.

Here's the kicker. I have no medical insurance whatsoever at this point. I have to pay for all of this out of pocket. Bonus...my salary kicks in a week from Thursday. More money, so I should be able to pay for it.

I'm not that bothered that I have to go through all of this. I even double-checked to see if H was at risk--which he's not. And I asked about my ability to get pregnant in the future...which is also not a problem.

I'm a little bothered by H's behavior afterward. He said he felt dirty, like he had an STD. He seemed to think that it was a different virus that caused warts on the hand versus warts on the genitals. The doctor had said it was the same thing. I told him we didn't know where it came from, and it didn't matter--chances were he has it at this point, regardless of where it came from.

As he was driving me back to work, he started asking all kinds of weird questions. (I think he was a little lost with everything the doctor was saying.) He asked what it meant if he and I were to break up--would it affect any future partners he might have. (WTF?? He was just telling me how he coulnd't live without me!!) I told him I didn't know, exactly, but that it could be transmitted to someone else... He said he was just trying to figure it out from all angles. (Which I can see...his brain does work that way...)

I said something I shouldn't have, though. I only recently found out the real number of partners he has had. He had always told me before it was a much, much smaller number. I'm not bothered by the promiscuity so much as the deception. Yes, it's not me, it's not how I think he should have behaved--but that doesn't make him a bad person or a bad H. I told him that if I had known that before we had started having sex, I would have asked him to have an STD test. I know he always used a condom--he's actually pathological about it--but I still would have asked him to.

H actually had the nerver to ask me if we still got buy shoes when I get paid. I told him I wouldn't be able to afford it right now, since I have to pay to have this stuff done. Why was he thinking of that when I'm worried about something I'm going to have to pay out of pocket for??

I feel more betrayed by the fact that his misleading me may have endangered me more than the fact that he (however small a chance) may have given me something. I can deal with the fact that he may have given me something. (Although I realize that that is jumping to conclusions...I could have just as easily gotten in when I had warts on my hand a few years back...) What I'm bothered by is the fact that he felt he had to mislead me, especially about that.

When he dropped me off, he asked me if I blamed him. I said I didn't. (I can't say that's 100% true...I honestly don't know...) He said that I must hate him now. I took a minute to give him a big hug and a kiss, tell him I would see him in a couple of hours.

I'm feeling really weird and insecure. Weird about having the procedure done. Weird about H's having lied about his sexual history. And I feel like, right now, I can't go to him without him taking it all wrong and running. Right now I just need a big hug and some understanding from him...and I feel like I'm being forced back into the role of comforting him.

I feel like I never get the chance to be the one who is upset, without him thinking I am "angry" or trying to "punish" him. I feel like I don't just get to cry on him and be vulnerable. I realize right now that I'm generalizing because I'm upset...and that's probably not true...I'm just sick of feeling like I have to censor my emotions around him...

[Underdog]

Nevanna,

I'm sorry your H has put you in the unenviable position of comforting him when you are experiencing feelings of anxiety and worry without adding him to the mix.

I want to take a few minutes to offer what comfort I can. (Never did I ever imagine sharing this stuff with the world...)

I have had cervical cancer and have HPV present as well. Although all the literature and videos I've watched have indicated it IS transmitted sexually, you realize that there is absolutely no point in wondering how you ended up with it?

Blame is a useless thing and also a cheeseless tunnel, and I'm happy that you don't seem to be buying into this one.

I found out I was pregnant with D7 3 days after I got the grim news... and the good news is that I was able to carry her to full term without complications. Her disability is genetic and not at all related to this stuff.

The colposcopies are just a teensy bit uncomfortable--only because they can cause some cramping, bleeding and/or nausea, depending on the location. Same goes for the biopsies. With a lot of diligence and luck on your part, you can have this behind you in short order.

I have also read that research scientists are studying the effects of HPV on men--wondering if there is any link to prostate cancer? More on this one as time marches on, I'm sure.

I'm absolutely diligent with my paps, and have been cancer free for 5 years now. All my parts are still intact too! I have more than a handful of friends who have traveled this route--all with happy stories and reports and who are happy and healthy today. Somehow, I am hoping you will fall into that category as well.

If I might offer anything on this subject, you are both entitled to your feelings. As much as this galls me to say, why not validate his feelings and use them as a stepping stone to discussing your own? Sharing this stuff is certainly an intimacy builder, and it might be something that helps move the 2 of you back toward each other.

Good luck and keep the faith!

Betsey

[Lyrael]

Nevanna-
Here is my earlier reply that I didn't get a chance to post:
Nev-
The third of September is the year anniversary of H moving out. It's been kind of a tough time for me.

I am also occasionally missing my space. H is home A LOT, and sometimes it just kinda grates on me a bit. I love him, I want him here, but tranisitioning from being alone a lot and in charge of my space and time to being really "married" again is an adjustment.

I am actually thinking about getting a part-time job, just to give me some time out of the house. I guess I developed some independence while he didn't live here, and I still need alone time sometimes.

One thing Betsey (Underdog) has hammered into my head time and time again: if you don't take care of yourself, you won't have any patience or energy for anyone or anything else. That is so true! I am finding that one way I need to take care of myself is by giving myself some space.

Now here's my reply to the current post. I also have HPV in my system. It was pretty ugly when I found out, as I was not as well-informed as your doctor helped you to be, and I got pretty upset with my H, as I knew his ex had it. Anyway, I also had that abnormal pap, and am getting a repeat and possibly a colposcopy. So far I haven't had any problems with it, and it was detected before my pregnancy. My doctor was kind of rude about it actually, insinuating that I should demand some answers from my then boyfriend, and questioning whether I was really making a good choice being with him.

My question to you re no health insurance - is your income too high for medical assistance? If so, could you do a payment plan, or ask for a discount? Some places will discount your care, and some won't. It always helps to discuss the situation with the billing office.

Hugs,
Myrrh

[Nevanna]

UD...

Well, H and I made up. I think we both just needed some time to settle into our feelings and make a readjustment.

I was pretty upset on the drive home, and was almost there, when I noticed I had missed a call on the cell. I called him back. He has this amazing ability....he has always called me just when I needed him the most. Sixth sense? Intuitive understanding of how I feel? I don't know. But this has happened several, several times after we reconciled.

So I called him back. He asked where I was, if I was coming home. He sounded upset. I told him I was close. He asked if I was mad at him. I told him no, and that I would be home soon. Actually, just that made me feel much better.

When I got in, he had the most concerned look on his face. Came over and gave me a big hug. We layed down on the couch to talk for awhile. He asked if I was mad at him...I told him no. (I'm not really mad at him...) He asked if I blamed him. I asked him if he blamed himself. He admitted that he did "a little bit." I told him I was mostly just concerned with the procedure. (Long story...I hate having these sorts of things done to me...) I do blame him...just a little...but telling him that would do no good whatsoever.

He did keep asking me if I was mad. I told him of course not. I asked him if it looked like I was mad (we were all snuggled up on the couch together). He said he was afraid that I was going to leave him. (I think this is what was really behind the weird behavior earlier.) I told him no. I pointed out that if I wanted to leave him, I wouldn't have asked the doctor how long I needed to wait before getting pregnant.

That perked him up a bit. He said he felt weird about having an STD...said he'd never had one before...but he said it didn't matter, because he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life. Told me that I was being with me was like heaven--which is funny, since he claims to be an atheist. (I don't believe him. )

So we are just fine now. H is playing video games--he has to go to work tonight.

I'm sorry your H has put you in the unenviable position of comforting him when you are experiencing feelings of anxiety and worry without adding him to the mix.

It's...unfortunately typical of H. The good thing is, if I hang in there initially, H more than reciprocates later. He has been incredibly sensitive and attentive since we got the initial phone call. So I guess it's just a give-and-take thing. If I can clamp my mouth shut and take care of him first, he will take care of me later. I kind of knew that earlier, but I was all out of whack. I did really wanted to start a fight with him earlier...but I think I knew deep down he would come around.

Blame is a useless thing and also a cheeseless tunnel, and I'm happy that you don't seem to be buying into this one.

What's done is done. I used to be very good at the blame game... I learned this lesson the hard way! Sometimes it still wants to bite me, though.

If I might offer anything on this subject, you are both entitled to your feelings.

I agree. Learned this one awhile back.

As much as this galls me to say, why not validate his feelings and use them as a stepping stone to discussing your own? Sharing this stuff is certainly an intimacy builder, and it might be something that helps move the 2 of you back toward each other.

This was sort of in the back of my head the last few hours, anyway. I just needed to calm down some more.

Although I have to say...I didn't let things get out of hand between us like I might have before. I did sort of recognize the pattern with H--when he's really hurt and confused, he retreats back into his selfish shell. He might have been cuing off of me--he did say he thought I was mad at him and that I blamed him. He did the mean, self-protective thing for a couple of weeks early on our sitch. Similar behavior earlier, but not on the same scale. The thing I learned about H is, again, if I can comfort and validate him initially, he more than makes up for that in support later. It's just so hard to reign those initialy, overwhelming feelings in!

Thanks for sharing--I feel much better knowing I'm not the only one. H can be very supportive--he pointed out that we are in this together--but sometimes he just isn't going to get things simply because he's a guy. (Of course, he could say the same thing about me...and it would be true... )

[Nevanna]

Hey Myrrh...don't you just hate it when your post gets eaten?? It always seems to happen when I write the looooongest entries.

I love him, I want him here, but tranisitioning from being alone a lot and in charge of my space and time to being really "married" again is an adjustment.

Yes! I realize a big part of my problem is that, at the moment, I don't have a lot of money. I really get reenergized being around friends and getting out. Without money...well...two of my closest friends are a considerable drive to go see. Ah, well. I get my first "real" paycheck a week from Thursday!! I'm so excited. I realize that I will be much calmer after that.

And H...well...he says he's traumatized from the whole thing. I don't think he's exaggerating, either. I had the sneaking suspicion that, after some time, he was taking the seperation much harder than I was. His neediness indicates to me that he really, really hurt himself. I think he will calm down in time. And I understand that clinginess--I was the same way pre-bomb when I could feel H pulling away, although at the time I didn't realize it was the wrong way to handle things.

I'm starting to get re-settled in, and enjoy the "married" stuff again. There was a strange sense of freedom the last few weeks of our sep...when were ML frequently and I knew H would come home, and probably soon, but I still had my place and could do whatever I wanted. It was sort of this interesting taste of the best of both worlds!

if you don't take care of yourself, you won't have any patience or energy for anyone or anything else.

I agree!! Like I mentioned above, the cooped up/smothered feelings is more because I haven't been able to get out instead of anything he has done. I've been around enough to know my discontent isn't caused by H, just my current finances.

My doctor was kind of rude about it actually, insinuating that I should demand some answers from my then boyfriend, and questioning whether I was really making a good choice being with him.

Wow. My doctor was very helpful, full of information. He made sure that I understood that it didn't necessarily come from H, or that it didn't necessarily mean that H had cheated on me. I'm fairly suspicious that I did get it from him, but again....who knows. The doctor also pointed out that it's possible my immune may learn how to deal with it all on its own.

My question to you re no health insurance - is your income too high for medical assistance?

I was unemployed and then only temporarily employed for the past year and half. At the beginning of the month I was hired by the company I had been contracting, so now I am just waiting to put my time in so that I am eligible for insurance.

If so, could you do a payment plan, or ask for a discount? Some places will discount your care, and some won't.

The doctor already offered to do a payment plan. He knows I haven't had insurance for the past few years, and has been very helpful in the past. Although the rates are fixed for the colopscopy (sp?) and biopsy--out of his control since he works in the framework of local hospital. And I like him very much, so I don't want to go anywhere else. I think I am eligible for temporary coverage, which I am going to look into tomorrow when I go to work. If not...well..I asked him about how much it would cost, and I should be able to afford it since I hired on.

So...check on the insurance tomorrow, then call back to make the appointment for sometime after I get paid.

[Nevanna]

H and I talked some more last night. I'm getting the feeling that he's really feeling bad about the idea that it probably came from him. I think he's ashamed at having picked up something, and guilty about the possibility of having passed it on to me.

I told H that, often, there are no symptoms in men. So he had no way of knowing. I also told him that it may not even have anything to do with his number of partners--that one of my best GF's got something from her first partner. I think that made him feel better. (He is actually really ashamed about the number of people he has been with. He kept saying that "it wasn't really that many..." and I would just agree with him.)

He mentioned how bad of an infection he had a few months back, and how he felt bad about asking me if I had cheated on him. (It was a pretty bad infection.) But that he felt like he had a right to now, and that he really did believe me when I told him that I hadn't. (He kept looking at me really funny, at the time, so I'm not so sure he was convinced then.) I told him of course he had the right to ask me, that was his health.

I told H that I knew he would have told me if there was something else I should have known. That I trusted him, since it was about my health. (True. He wouldn't lie or hide things from me in this case.) He agreed...and mentioned something we had talked about before.

He was a little worried that something might have happened while he was really, really drunk one night at his apartment. That he doesn't remember anything, but he had a weird feeling the next day. It was the night that xrm had referred to as the "magical night." She has also claimed they had sex...but that doesn't prove anything, since she says a lot of other things happened that didn't. She had basically offered, and H remembers he went to his room. Then he said he passed out, and the next day he just felt this strange sense of unease. But that he did wake up dressed, so he didn't think anything had happened.

We had talked about this, actually, some time last week. He's a little concerned that maybe she took advantage of him, but he doesn't know. His discomfort could have also been from the fact that she made it known that she would sleep with him.

Personally, I don't think anything happened. Knowing H, if he was that out of it, there was no way he would have woken up still dressed. And, I know he used to call me those nights he was drunk. I'm fairly certain I talked to him that morning, because we had one conversation where I don't think he knew up from down. But the whole thing really makes him uncomfortable.

And also, H made a real point of telling me that he didn't do anything with her after we reconciled. He sounded incredibly proud of himself. And he said he knew I wouldn't take him back if he slept with her (not true...althought it would have been harder...).

I told H if that had happened, I wouldn't blame him. He said he knew that--but I wanted to make sure he heard that. I think this whole thing just has him on edge. He told me he was really digging around in his memory to try to figure out where it might have come from.

We also talked about other places it might have come from--ways that were out of his control. (He was the one who wanted to talk...I would have let it drop.) I think he began to realize there is really no way for us to know where it came from for certain.

I made sure to leave him some nice vmails when he went to work. After our discussion about the 5LL the other day, H said he thinks his primary may actually be WOA. (I still think it's AOS...but, hey, whatever works... )

I was pretty out of it when he came home. I can't wait to get off of work and go see him.

[Underdog]

Nevanna,

Good stuff here! Glad that this is fostering better communications between the two of you.

I think it's important to realize that HPV is a virus, not a STD. Viruses CAN make us sick or cause disease, but often our immune systems are able to ward them off. Sometimes not, and then we show symptoms that reveal more.

Ask him to think if he'd be feeling guilty about giving you the flu just because he kissed you on the cheek or held your hand in the movie theater? BTW, most viruses ARE transmitted through our hands...

It seems as though your validation efforts are paying off. Keep up the good work and keep us posted on your progress.

Betsey

[gonna_be_okay]

Nevanna, I've been checking out your thread for the first time in awhile, and I see you've been dealing with this little crisis--I'm so sorry--but it looks like you have handled it very well, gotten the facts, soothed yourself and H, etc. I assume this will mean annual pap smears for you ? I guess it could be much worse......and hey, it may put some fear (the good, reasonable kind) in H's heart about this type of thing.....

Hang in there, Nevanna. You're doing so well.

GBO