Ok, need to post some positives....hmmmm, kind of hard after the weekend, but here goes:
from yesterday: -H was patient and uncomplaining about my family, bless his heart (now he could have called OW to complain to her, but I cant do anything about that) -H initiated ml, and was EAGER!!!! -H continues to make reference to the future as it pertains to "us"....
Today: -H initiated a peck on the cheek and whispered ILY at work where he could have been seen/heard (gasp!) -H has emailed me a couple of times conversationally today
I looked up the article posted in the break room here at work....it's very short, not from a professional journal but good, interesting information......the site is www.domianpsych.com, the title is "The Parental Affair: Destructive Effects on Spouse and Children" and it's from March 2001.
The incredible irony of all this is H knows this stuff!!!!!!WTF is his brain doing? One of the sources quoted in the article is "clincial Handbook of Marriage & Couples Interventions" which is on the same bookshelf as the devotions book the pictures of OW fell out of just before vacation. sheeesh! maybe I should read part of that....
OK guys, somebody stop me here, the devil is after me again..... In the above mentioned article, there is a part that says "There is a reason people keep affairs secrest. It is not because they want to spare the betrayed spouse pain; it is because the affair can be anything the two people fantasize it to be as long as the realtioship is not made public and subjected to reality"..... I am so tempted to run off another copy and highlight that section and another one and drop it into OW's mailbox.....or make another copy and highlight selected portions and leave it on the table in the breakroom where H will eat lunch tomorrow.........
Of course, the angel on my shoulder is reminding me that the most effective course of action is to do nothing.....
hmmmm....this really is a good article, it talks about how the roles of monogamy are split between 2 people when an affair happens and the LBS becomes all the negatives and the other becomes the embodiment of all the positives.....someone posted here recently, either in this thread or the previous one, that now the OW and I have reversed roles, which is what would be meant here. If that is indeed accurate, that would seem to be a huge shift to me. hmmmmmmmmmmm
Of course even thinking about this is hindering my approach to acting "as if" the affair is over/OW doesnt exist.......
Stop Deb!! Don't make copies of that article, unless its for YOU! I'll bet you it will be a topic of conversation anyways ... don't you? I know if it was in my work place breakroom and that article was pinned up ... it would definitely be talked about!
The article that I have copied and pasted below was posted under the midlife crisis BB yesterday. I thought it was excellent. Read it and see what you think. This is NOT related (I don't think!) to your "article". I just thought it was good and wondered what you thought. It makes a lot of sense to me ... AND from what we both are going/have gone through "rings" very true!
Quote: Though primarily addressed to the women, most men who happen to feel drawn to read this article will find themselves doing so with a touch of curiosity. Of course, they think they already know what a man wants and are curious as to whether I am going to say something different or not. They think a man wants a good looking woman. Foremost, last and always. And though, as a man, I know where they're coming from, what a man is really looking for is something much deeper than that. He is wanting something to reassure him that he is an alright guy, that he is an okay person, that he is worth something.
IN SHORT, WHAT A MAN REALLY WANTS IS VALIDATION. He seeks this in many ways, a primary vehicle of which is his relationship with women. Something instinctive tells him that she can make him alright. Whether it be by how pretty a woman he can keep at his side, or by the scorecard of how many women he has vanquished in some romantic fashion, he sometimes goes through an entire lifetime attempting to feel good about himself through having relationships with women.HarveyIn the classic movie taken from the play Harvey, with Jimmy Stewart, there is a scene in which a very rigid psychiatrist, Dr. Willie Chumley, begins to let down his emotional defenses and reveal his true desires in life. He said if his fondest wish were to come true, it would be to just lie in his comfortable chair for hours and have some compassionate female simply rubbing his head, saying over and over, "Poor boy!" The humor in the character is the fact that there is a little bit of Dr. Chumley in every man. Down deep he wants to be unconditionally loved just like a little boy by a perfect, loving mother. Pride, of course, causes that vulnerability to be hidden as a man grows from childhood into manhood. First it is hidden from others and then at last it is hidden from himself, but it is still there waiting to be discovered.Meanwhile, man begins to seek some sort of gratification as a substitute for this missing unconditional love from a source he can look up to, and he usually turns to those substitutes that never quite fill him up, emotionally speaking. There is always something lacking, or as the Rolling Stones have said and capitalized on, he "can't get no satisfaction". The key to winning a man's heart but the fact remains, he is vulnerable…very vulnerable. And for that wise woman who understands this it provides an opening to secure the man of her choice like spearing fish in a barrel!You see, most men going around trying to sport a good looking woman on their arm, or keeping lists of their female conquests, for one reason and one reason alone: It gives them a sense of validation and being worth something, and that is a feeling they desperately feel the need for. The only problem is, this kind of validation is temporary and fleeting and, like a drug or alcohol, only leaves him feeling empty and in need of another fix as soon as a little time has gone by. Man's greatest vulnerability is not a physical need, but a psychological one. It is the need to be loved, but not just loved by anyone - to be loved by someone he senses is emotionally independent and strong. This kind of love is validating and worthwhile.So, if you as a woman wish to stand out and make a difference to the man of your dreams you have to make up your mind not to be weak. You must demonstrate in your every action that, though you may derive great enjoyment and fulfillment in the company of the man you want, you still have the capacity to survive very well and go on with your life and be happy without him if he ever takes you for granted or misuses you.
A man may think he needs a bimbo by his side to show off to the other guys, but in his heart he knows he's perpetrating a fraud. She may help him make the other guys jealous, evoking a kind of prideful satisfaction in one way on his part, but in his heart he knows she's not what he really wants or needs. He's compromised for this because he's lacking the real thing he wants.No, what a man really wants is a woman who loves him in spite of himself, but won't put up with his bull. VALIDATE YOUR MAN
Here are several key points to remember, in trying to bring true love into your life and into the life or the man you choose: 1. COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T NEED ANYONE TO BE HAPPY IN YOUR LIFE. You may want someone very badly, but in the end you must come to accept the reality that you will always somehow survive if it doesn't happen and you will make the best of what life gives you.
2. MAKE UP YOUR MIND THAT YOU WILL NOT EVER TOLERATE BEING DISRESPECTED, DISREGARDED, MISUSED, ABUSED, OR USED IN ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER. You need not revile against someone who so treats you, but you definitely make your absence felt in their life when they do so.
3. BE RESERVED IN THE LOVE YOU SHOWER UPON YOUR MAN. You may bestow limited tokens of cherishing, but if they are not reciprocated in quantity and kind, back off or your love will become less and less appreciated and ultimately despised.
4. LEARN TO LISTEN OBJECTIVELY, AND TO REFLECT FEELINGS EXPRESSED BY HIM WITHOUT ADVISING, CRITICIZING, OR TRYING TO CHANGE HIM. Don't even offer too much sympathy, lest it be quickly taken for granted.
5. DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE WITHOUT HIM FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME. When he is out of your life, make sure that your life is as happy and productive and fruitful as it ever is when he's around. At the same time, don't throw out a welcome mat that says "Walk On Me!!" the minute he starts coming back around. Show pleasure to see him again, but be restrained.
Conclusion: In essence, then, you have it in your power to calm your troubled man like a little boy in his mother's arms. Therein lies what a man really wants: a woman who nurtures him but who he can look up to and knows won't take any of his guff. Be caring, but be strong. Therein lies the key to fulfilling a man's heart. You may wonder why I'm so concerned about meeting the man's needs and not yours, but that's another article. If he isn't fulfilling your needs you're definitely choosing the wrong man. But if you've got the right man and you become what he really wants, such a love must be clung to with all the strength you can muster. For such a love is attainable, but rare in this world of ours.
Hi Deb, You asked about my thread. I have listed this, but I haven't posted anything there since May of 2003. I have tried to keep up on reading others posts, but I haven't begun a new thread. I have recently been "infiltrating" yours here and there. I'm hoping that is okay and that I haven't come across too strongly? I guess I get really excited when I talk about the "total turnaround" I have seen my H go through! If you "attempt" to read my thread, you will see that I did an awful lot of ranting, raving, questioning...AND etc. My thread was: Friendship Saga Continues
I'm thinking the turning point (for me... not H ) is when I decided that I was going to "play" this out until my D graduated high school. (One year at THAT time!) If things were still going the "same way" at the end of this time, (that would have been this year, June 2004) then I was sure I would have the strength/courage to finally do something about it. H came home one day and asked me to accompany him to pick up a new Harley Davidson motorcycle he had just purchased. (This was, by the way, in May 2003, when I stopped posting here.) H did not consult me before hand about this new purchase/financial obligation BUT! I did not complain or criticize. I was very skeptical, 'cause little ol' TC, well you know... she is usually afraid of trying new things! I did a total 180, approached this new Harley thing as an adventure and had the time of my life last summer. We rode everywhere! I don't think I had played so hard since my college years. H even took me down to Ohio (where last OW was) and we rode with his new friends down there! So H saw and I enjoyed a big change in myself.
I mentioned (I think) the fact that I have gone on a couple of trips without H (his choice). Whereby he then proceeded to say how sorry he was that he didn't go with me and that he was worried about all of the new "people" I might have met. (What a switch!) These trips, my new found independence in finding new friends, discovering/attempting new things, AND my total attitude change towards H and our situation have all helped (I believe) in a total change in H and how he now feels about me. I am (of course trying to minimize here, 'cause I know I get too wordy, but I can expound more later if you are interested.)
Quote: I'm still somewhat cautious about being gone a lot because one of his complaints was that I was never around/interested in him...but I think just a touch does him good. I told him I'd thought we'd be home before him or I'd have left a note....that's kind of a touchy issue because I've told him it helps me feel better when he leaves me a note or lets me know when he's gone, and he has been pretty good about it, so I try to reciprocate for the most part.....
I think you can still DO this one. Just make sure that you leave while your H is gone. (When you might be worrying where he is?) Make sure you look great before you head out that door and leave a note that you went to the bookstore (or anywhere!) for a bit and that you won't be long. And then..don't be long. (But make sure you get home after he does ... even if you have to circle the block a couple of times!) You won't be putting him out (or shouldn't be) 'cause you were sitting at home and HE wasn't there, right? AND you weren't gone too long anyways. Of course you wouldn't want to do this EVERY time your H is gone and you're questioning "where"...but maybe every other time? It WILL definitely get him wondering .. don't you think? When he asks, just it put it bluntly that you went to the bookstore (or wherever!). DON'T go into great detail about why/where you went. Keep it short.
Hi TC....thanks for your posts! guess what....I didn't give the article to OW....but I did make a copy for me, it really is excellent. OW doesnt give a damn, frankly, and H knows this stuff....so I probably wouldnt have gained a thing other than personal retribution, which doesnt make any sense.
I like the article you posted, I'm going to copy it so I can have it to reread.....it makes a lot of sense, in many ways. when I combine it with the article I found at work yesterday, it helps me to begin to see my H's sitch (and mine) more clearly....interesting how these seem to come together at the appropriate time. I also had what I think is called a "rhema sign" from a bible reading yesterday....I don't know, I am kind of from the school that believes there's "no such thing as coincidence" but it fascinates me as to the timing of things. I think it was Sage who had a thread here months ago titled "when the student is ready the teacher appears" and that has stuck with me because I thought-and continue to think-it was so apt.
I'm kind of in a weird place this morning, and probably should have posted about that before I read your posts....as it really feeds in to my belief that things become clearer when the time is right.
I do want to read some of your thread. I learn so much from the wise folks who have traveled this road before me.
TC I read through most of your last thread this morning and all I can say is WOW.....you are one smart cookie. I think I have the last page to go, so I'm in suspense, HB was encouraging you to "go dim" and let your H know that was it....either or...I'm curious to see how that turns out.
I'm in a weird place today....I have again gottent to the point I was at the first Friday in June on the way home from the funeral of family friend, just weirdly detached....knowing that I am done with his drama, and what ever he does about it, I'm gonna be fine. Don't know how I will be fine, finances are a concern, but somehow.....this was the day before H put his ring back on, so I can't help but wonder if he has some weird intuition about me as I seem to have about him.....could be....lord knows we've been together long enough to learn how to "read" each other, whether he likes to admit it or not. I've decided, much as you posted TC, that I am going to in my mind put a time limit of a year from now, or rather the day H put his ring back on....I will be able to do something by then if he hasnt gotten it together....I'm not sure what yet....i have decided that if H decides to move out of state, I need to have some proof from him that this is over and not going to happen again before I give up my job, uproot S who will be going into middle school, and move 1000 miles from family. Don't know what the proof will be, I have to think on that.
I'm kind of debating after reading your thread, TC, if it's time yet to tell him this is it and go "dim".....or if I need to keep on making sure the steaks are on the grill for a while longer. Obviously there's no harm in sleeping on it and praying about it until I'm sure.
Part of not wanting to do it is plain selfishness--frankly in many ways we are closer than we have been in years and the sex is great, and I just plain don't want to give that up!!!!!!
It's kind of hard, because I'm not sure what I would do if he didn't call it quits if I "go dim"....I am determined and adamant to leave that decision on his shoulders, as to going or staying, but I'm not sure what leverage I have if I am determined not to file for D....I could research annulments and legal separation, maybe I should do that some.... the damn idiot. I really don't think he has any intention of leaving me/home, he just cant get his head out of his behind enough to tell her its done and make it stick. Of course she is the queen of the guilt trip, from what he's said.....when brings another thought to my mind that I'm mulling over. I can't believe the things he told me a month ago were not heart felt and long-thought out and have completely gone out the window....he talked about how she blows up and gets so mad and he doesnt know why, how could you ever trust a person like that, etc......so weird....
Many years ago, when I was in college and just after, I dated a guy for 7 years. We were engaged, I loved him terribly, probably still do in a weird way. We broke up because.....yep, you guessed it, he cheated.....over and over again, and I finally got to the point where I knew deep down that I had had enough and was done....that no matter what happened, it was better than living with that stuff. it's weird, but I'm really close to that point w/H....I don't know how to describe it, its just something that is so deep you know it.....Funny thing is, talk about ESP or intuition or something, xbf started calling and making overtures again the same week I met H....I could have had him back.........
TC, if you're there, tell me more if you would about the "coming around".....
I'm interested in opinions out there, experiences, time to "go dim" or just keep on with what I've been doing, maybe toning down the gestures of affection a little? I'm going to make a point of being gone some when H gets home...thinking of other ways to "get a life"....
H is one grumpy guy yesterday and today, this morning any way. I don't know why, could be he's tired from my folks still, work is a pain, it's hotter than blazes here (he says that's it) or, past experience has shown that he gets weird when something's up w/the b---h. H was making those whimpering sounds in the night again I think on Sunday. I just let him whimper. I don't know if that's good or not, but he knows how to solve it and he knows exactly where I stand on the matter.
I'm rambling here, but trying to sort out where I'm at....I see there's a new phone card here in it's hiding spot by the computer. I don't know, I just feel emotionally numb, sort of "oh well". Is that good or bad? I wonder if this detachment is going to stick?
Maybe I need to give a lot more thought to how to go a little dim.....H got really upset last winter when I didnt respond to his emails, and gets pretty close to being jealous when he even thinks there might be anything relating to another guy.....I don't know......don't know....don't know.... Opinions? keep on doing what I'm doing (seems to work some except he keeps going back) we've made progress over the long haul....or pull back?
OW was being a real demanding fit thrower before vacation, I can't imagine she's improved much....maybe I should just try to sit tight, be a little less demonstrative and more mysterious, and see what happens.
I did go get my hair cut after work, got it kind of flipped up and spiked out a little....just into trying something different these days.
I'd sure love to hear any opinions or thoughts out there!
I'm not sure how this plays into my sitch, but....I'm absolutely convinced H is big time in a MLC, and HB said on TC's thread that "they just don't respond the same" in a MLC affair....if any one could elaborate a little more on that, it would be helpful
I also believe this is H's 1st affair.....could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Hi Deb, I'm sorry I wasn't around last night. I'm glad you got to read my thread. I discovered that I wasn't able to get to it via how I entered it into my post to you a couple of days ago. (Sorry...I guess I don't know how to do that right.) Obviously you figured out how to get there though.
I'm not sure that there is a whole lot more info on that last page ... but my going "dim" did not turn out like most would think. I DID NOT ignore H. I DID ignore all of his "antics". Most would think going dim would be more or less not giving him much more than the time of day. That is NOT the case in my situation. That is why in one of my posts to you I mentioned how difficult it is to find the "balance" between separating yourself from H's problems, continuing to "make" yourself grow and then also still act loving/respectful to H. I will post more about this later .. IF you want.
Unfortunately I did not get back on-line until early this morning, right before work and don't have time to go into too much detail. Don't be "down" Deb! You are doing absolutely GREAT! Keep your PMA up, EVEN if you don't feel it, okay? Let everyone else (H?) SEE it ... it will be catchy. You will find that you will actually begin "feeling" the happy person that you are showing everyone on the outside. You are one awesome individual .. don't forget that!
I will pull up your thread again tonight when I get home from work ... to see how you are doing.
