I am new to this site, but not new to your issue. I have read through your entire post and definitely feel you are married to my W. Anyway, I am at a similar point in our M where I am getting so frustrated that I am considering if I throw in the towel.
One thing I wished to share was that I had went through this cycle for almost 5 years with my W. The first 4 years my W realized something was wrong with our M and felt it was her fault because the beginning seemed to coincide with the birth of our S. After spending a lot of money on endocronologists, urologists, gynocologists, physcologists, counselors and chiropracters (yes we pretty much tried everything), and recieved no answer as to why my W lost her drive and desire. It was not until 3 months ago that I stumbled across a similar website to this one and started reading several books and participating in these types of discussions that I actually realized that our M issue was not caused by our S's birth and began before this.
It turns out that I have some fundamental mistrust issues because of my past, that I projected onto my W. By my doing this and her feeling like I was controling and jealous, she lost trust in me to not hurt her emotionally. Unfortunately, we are now at a point where my W harbors more anger than love for me and this has made any attempts to move forward on my part almost impossible.
My point is, my W was mentioning my mistrust issues over the first four years of our trama and it did not make sense to me or hit me until three months ago. Is it possible that if you truly attempt to reflect inward, you might find something about yourself that actually has contributed to where you are. At least in your W's mind?
I wish you the best of luck on this troubled Journey.
I have looked into and I am at least 50% of the problem. The difference now is that I am the one looking for a solution instead of sticking my head in the sand and hoping that it will go away.
I was thinking last night my W wanted me to go out and get a shake. I told her I did not want one and wasn't going to go get one. She said there was nothing she could do to persuade me into doing this for her. ie hinting that if I did this that we could make a deal and she would have sex with me. The reason I know this is becuase we have made that deal before. I will not do this anymore. I cannot believe how stupid I have been with this. That I would do anything for sex pretty much. That maybe I could buy her love for me. I realize now that I cannot buy her love so I have stopped trying to buy it. When and if she decides to give it freely without anything hanging over is when I will take it. So it maybe never that this happens but I will no longer degrade myself into being Needy, or lost without it.
That's a great post. For the first 5 years of my M, my W complained about me not "participating" in her life but I didn't "hear" it until recently. it might be too late, but at least she figured out a way to cope and stay married (though it was by becoming a roommate). It's weird that we have various points in which we gain understanding. I'm pestering my W these days over the sex...I might loose steam and retreat like she did 10 years ago. But when she turns 40 or something, this stuff might make sense to her. I feel like I owe her some years before I give up. A few months ago, I was afraid it was "all or nothing" but I think, if things stop improving, that I'll just go back to doing my own thing and not "participating" and find my own coping technique.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
You could have had sex AND a milkshake!!! Man, what are you thinking? -------------------
Maybe he was thinking the same think I used to think.
"Right, yet another promise of things to come. She will carb-out and pass out on the couch and I will be left wanting"
One person's carbs are another's tranquilizer.....
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
You know it is just getting so tireing of as soon as she wants somthing lets throw sex out there so that maybe she can get me to do something for her. I am tired of being manipulated. If it is so damn easy to do it then why does she always turn down my advances?
If you have realized that you are 50% of the problem, have you eliminated your problematic behaviors now? If you have, have you allowed enough time for your W to realize it is a permanent change? This is something my W is struggling with. I keep having to combat things from the past with her. She is not ready to realize that I have changed and that its time to move forward. It is difficult.
The sex and milk shake thing is rediculous. She is using sex as a weapon. It sounds like she does not value sex like you do. She probably sees sex as a "thing" and not a "connection." I salute your reserve for not taking up the milk shake routine.
Have you tried to walk in your W's shoes and see things from her perspective? I try to do this, but just can't seem to get a clear picture. This is because something in me must resolve conflict. I cannot live with on going conflict. Therefore, if I was turned off from sex with my spouse because they did things I did not like or made me uncomfortable, but I knew sex was one of their most important emotional needs, I would feel miserable not participating. I would also be concerned about them remaining faithful. I wonder if this is part of my old mistrust issues creeping back in? Or is it right to feel this way and realize that a marital commitment is between two people for eachother and NOT the individualistic benefit for one at the expense of the other. However, I think my W's problem is that she does not worry about me going elsewhere because she completely trusts me and knows I won't. I am starting to interpret this as being taken for granted.
Yes I have tried to rectify the issues that I know of from my W. I believe that she really does not know what she wants and how to get it. She doesn't want me to be controlling but doesn't want to do things herself. Kind of a catch 22 in my opnion I really want to have her needs met. Becuase she deserves to have them met.
I do know that she uses sex as a weapon and that is the reason I will no longer perticapate<sp> in it. I will still try to iniate but will no longer let her rejection affect me. If it keeps up even though she knows for a fact that I need to make love I will have to move on there is really no other choice at that point.
I feel the same as you. I am at a frustrated point. If you have fixed your end to her satisfaction and things are not changing over a reasonable amount of time, then I could see some drastic measures being called for.
I am not recommending, but have read on different posts, how some guys in our situation have asked for a seperation and this has kick started their spouse into being serious about improving the M. Just like asking for a raise a twork, you better be prepared to be called on this. Sometimes spouses get the initial kick in the a** and the other spouse does not even have to move out. Other times the spouse agrees and then you are stuck moving out. This is perhaps the last thing to do. Notice I have said seperation and not divorce. Some situations call for this drastic measure. However, many groups will tell you how moving out is worse because when you are in the same house your spouse is forced to deal with things. The exception is when you are in the same house and the spouse still does not deal with things.
Hopefully you have not come to this seperation point yet. Othere things I have seen suggested are a complete 180 degree approach where you actually change how you act and/or are expected to act. This means everything with regards to your spouse. If you are the one always asking for sex - stop asking. If you always say "I love you" - stop. If you always give her a kiss in the mornings or evenings - stop. This is where you start doing things for you. Get back into shape, take up hobbies you always wanted to do but never had the time, spend more time with the kids, go out with friends. Eventually she will take notice. When she does, your actions will speak louder than your words are currently.
I am considering all of the possibilities at this point. I know I have to still work on me and prove to my W that I am better. If I do this and contribute to all of her emotional needs and she still does not have the consideration for me I will be trying drastic measures. I will not stay in a passive marriage feeling neglected forever.
Lee, Would your W agree to go to counseling? Sex therapy maybe? Maybe she has some issue that cause her to be LD... I have a great friend in sex therapy, she started because her H was inappropriate with other women, now she realizes all the issues SHE has that keep her from true intimacy in the M...
Just something to think about. And maybe you could approach it in a non-threatening way... "W I know my sex drive bugs you, maybe we could get some counseling to see if there is anyway that we can get this fixed..."
Just wondering.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
