My first thought was to blast you for that. However, your viewpoint may be helpful to some of us. There may be some good points to the post but much of it is as helpful as telling an allergy sufferer to stop sniveling.
Many of us have been way out of our comfort zone for a very long time. The cravings we feel are physical. I, for one, have tried multiple times to approach celebacy because the whole hassle just isn't worth it. But I can't leave my need and my need just won't leave me. I just doesn't work.
For many of us, the sex during our respective courtships was fabulous. But, the day after the wedding everything changed and the ache we felt was callously dismissed with "is that all you ever think about?"
But we are the loyal ones. We read books and bang our heads against the wall trying to figure out a way to find some peace within our marriages. Find a way to get our spouses to celebrate our union. To make love with us because we can't do it alone and there's no one else we can ethically do it with.
Many of our spouses expect us to give up sex entirely. They are denying who and what we are and often do their best to belittle and take advantage of us because of our desire. A desire that is a need.
Sex within a marriage is so important that it's even addressed in the New Testement (1Cor-7) Paul says if you can't live a celebate life, get a spouse so you don't sin. Once married you must share your bodies with each other unless you both agree to become celebate. This is so you don't sin by persuing your needs outside the holy union of marriage.
We're fighting with everything we have to improve our marriages and many of our spouses JUST DON'T CARE. If not for the kids and not for the vows - we'd be long gone. Many of us have compromised and changed as much as we can. It would be nice if some of our respective spouses would lift a finger in support or encouragement.
Our desire isn't going to go away - as much as we've tried to ignore it. Do you have some insight into how we could interest our repective spouses in joining with us in a carnel marital union?
Quote: There may be some good points to the post but much of it is as helpful as telling an allergy sufferer to stop sniveling.
Tom, I used to think so, too. It took me a LONG time to "get" Corri, but once I did, I came to see just how wise and together she is. She is one amazing lady. One of the things that allowed me to finally "Get" her, was that I DID get PM, crack it and get busy. The moment I started reading that book, my life changed for the better. The effect was immediate. The VERY DAY I started reading it, I could feel the power of it. I read, I think, the first four chapters that first day. I blasted through the entire book in 5 days. Then I started again, and read it much more slowly. I think I'm about due to read it again. I'm sure there's a lot I've missed yet.
Quote: Many of us have been way out of our comfort zone for a very long time.
That's not the Comfort Zone Corri was referring to. The Comfort Zone is where you stay when your R is boring and predictable, and painful, and dry, but you're afraid to try something radical, because you don't know what the outcome will be. You don't want to say anything too forceful, because you don't know what she'll say in return, or where the convo will end up. It's too scary to make real changes. So instead of getting a life, you get a support group. Misery loves company. That's what Corri was talking about...
Quote: Do you have some insight into how we could interest our repective spouses in joining with us in a carnel marital union?
The book she mentions has all the wisdom you can handle...
Since Elle is recommending reading my posts in order to learn how to implement the Corri principles, I am going to post some recent insights on this thread. I have been so successful, I feel compelled to come back here and give advice, even if that means saying the same thing Corri said in her post, but in a different way that might make it click for someone.
Another way to consider your situation, if you are the HD spouse is to realize that your spouse might be more complex than you want to recognize. People often don't want to f**k the same kind of person they want to marry. This is why many of us feel like we are getting mixed messages from our LD spouses. There is a certain truth to the old cliches about "the madonna and the whore" or the woman whose husband gives her everything she might ask for but she finds herself f**king the a**hole tennis pro.
In my situation, it turns out that my H's sexual ideal is a bold, slutty b*tch. Imagine Joan Collins starring in XXX porn and you've got his number. I can easily do slutty and with a few drinks I can even be bold, but being b*tchy is a real stretch for me. By differentiating and putting my marriage on the line, I automatically reaped all the usual benefits of differentiation in that it forces your spouse to face up to the problem and opens up dialogue. I also reaped the benefit of becoming more sexually attractive to my spouse because taking a stand like that made me seem more bold and b*tchy and that is what turns him on.
My H's ideal wife is absolutely not his ideal f**k. He loves me for the nice woman that I am. This is what confused me and maybe what is confusing some of you. Now that we are talking more freely about sex, my H was even able to acknowledge the difficulty of what he was asking of me. He laughed and said "I guess I need you to be a little schizophrenic." I've decided I just have to view acting bold and b*tchy as a sort of foreplay that my H prefers and I need to work on doing if I want to be successful at initiation or seduction. He's really been trying to tell me this in a lot of ways over the years, but I just didn't get it.
Consider any mixed messages you may be receiving from your LD spouses in this light and it might be helpful.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Lass, would the knowledge about how much your H was suffering have helped you overcome your LD when you were in that position?
Honey...Unfortunately I would have to say at that time my answer to that question definitely would have been no. Keep in mind though that my 1st husband was physically abusive...the 2nd an alcoholic (do we see a pattern here? LOL) I'm also a much different person now than I was then...I've grown quite a bit through those exprierences, learned what I do/don't want, what I will/won't put up with...and when I need to compromise.
Now when I did start dating a man who definitely wanted sex more than I did I had to re assess. I hated sex (so I thought) I went into that relationship with reservations in that area. It wasn't until I decided for myself to relax and try to overcome my own personal foibles and really try to enjoy myself that I could...up until that time it was as though I'd sort of mentally check out during sex. I didn't like it, so I just put up with it and waited for it to be over. I may have been there...but I really wasn't participating. It wasn't that I did that to intentionally hurt anyone either...it was just the easiest thing at the time to do....for me anyway. You know...now that I think about it (several years down the line) had I really made an effort in that area things may have been much different in my 2nd marriage. Hypothesizing here....my 2nd H's drinking got much worse the more I shut him out sexually...especially when I made him move out of the bedroom (which was about 9-mo before I left). I never made the connection then...but now I can definitely see how the two could become a vicious cycle...and we were both HORRIBLE at communication.
Quote: there seems to be two aspects-- physical pleasure and emotional intimacy.
You hit the nail on the head with that!
Quote: I have to feel "safe" and feel mutual affection.
I truly believe this is what I was lacking in both of my first marriages...although I might have to add respect in with the mutual affection. I didn't have that...so I didn't feel "safe".
Quote: I'm not totally into it going in... I can get there if someone takes there time.
This is very important to remember...I know there are many of you out there like myself who are sick to death of having to initiate...the fact is though we're going to have to suck it up and "just do it"..are you sick of me saying that yet? That phrase applies to us HD's just as it does the LD's. Its soo difficult for us HD's to maintain our patience as we constantly get rejected. But we need to try to keep in mind that there are LD's out there (like my hubby) who will get into ML if you can just kick start their engine. For me it feels like a chore to do that and I have to squelch feelings of resentment. But now that I look back on some of my posts...I think I'm going to have to take some of my own advice, take a deep breath, and try again. After all...how is he going to learn to start to initiate more with me if I in turn don't teach him that it's a safe place to go? I really hope that made sense...it did in my head.
Quote: Many of our spouses expect us to give up sex entirely. They are denying who and what we are
Tom they are also denying themselves the happiness mentioned in a previous post.
Quote: and often do their best to belittle and take advantage of us because of our desire.
That seems to be a very common thing. We as HD's are asking our LD's to change...that's pretty threatening to them (I think). Change is scary when you are being asked to become something you aren't familiar with...which asking an LD to become a more sexual person (from my own perspective) is scary. It's so much easier to attack the person asking you to change and belittle them for their differences. I wasn't asked by anyone to change...it was a personal choice for me...so I realize it's not quite the same thing. But some of the issues an LD has to overcome in order to become more sexual can be quite frightening. Unfortunately some people are never able to face those fears...I'm hoping for you and keeping my fingers, toes, eyes...everything but my legs crossed in good hopes for you. LOL...wait, that sounded really bad! Oh well.
It is very interesting to read how you overcome these problems. Unfortunately for many of us guys, our women are far less motivated then you. You were lucky to actually know another women that LOVED sex. I swear that LD women tend to associate, since my wife claims to be just as normal as all her other girlfriends, and I have the feeling they are all pretty LD as well. When it comes to sex, HD are role models, not ND's.
Quote: LD people need to realize that changing from LD to HD isn't easy...it will take time...most of all it will take effort...and if they love their partner that effort is so worth it. However, if the LD partner isn't willing to make that change then the HD partner has a long road ahead of them. For as we all know, you can't change someone...they have to want to make that change themself...the only thing you can change is you.
I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, I know I have a problem in my marriage, and being a guy, I want to fix it now. But there is nothing I can do to fix it. All I can do is change me, and then hope to God that whatever action I take will then cause a miracle to happen and my wife will suddenly decide to change. How encouraging, I have to take shots in the dark and hope that something will cause change to happen. Talk about no power. However, the wife has all the power, she just has to change her level of desire and everything will be fixed. She has ALL the power,, I know she does, and it frustrates me to know she can fix the situation, but does not.
Quote: She has ALL the power,, I know she does, and it frustrates me to know she can fix the situation, but does not.
That's the real killer. What bothers me so much more than the lack of sex is the knowledge that she refuses to do anything about such an obvious problem. She KNOWS I'm not happy with the sitch. She has the power to change things. And she chooses not to.
