Great thread, Lassie! Thanks for starting it. I really loved the "think of something you want...you can see it, almost touch it, but can't have it" idea. And the accompanying idea that your spouse has the ability to give it to you, but won't. Jeeze, that just kills me thinking about it. I don't know if my W will ever "get it." I should give her more credit, I guess.
Of course, now the question becomes, how do I get Lassie's great post to my W so she can read it? Any ideas?
I just keep thinking of more things that I want to add to this.
I know that I'm too wimpy in confronting her about sex (and probably lots of other things as well), but all of the issues I mentioned in the first long post play into that. I just HATE to criticize her. If I don't complain, nothing changes. If I do, she takes it as a personal attack - and I'm afraid that it will further erode her self-esteem and consequently frive her further away from me. That's why I've lasted for 28 years - I've always told myself that if I can drag her away from the miserable place that her parents left her, then just maybe she'll come around. I guess it's just that we're both getting older and I'm beginning to feel like time and my life are slipping away. That's what's driving me to confront things now.
That's unfortunate...I used to not like it myself...until I was finally able to let go. You would be so surprised how many men/women are just not able to let loose in the bedroom. I know I used to feel sooo stupid/awkward at anything I'd try in the bedroom...if I was requested to give fellatio for example...I was so preoccupied with the fact that I looked stupid, or maybe I wasn't doing it correctly that I couldn't actually get into it enjoy it.
And actually asking for something I would like to have done to/for me...was completely out of the question at that time as well. I may think it in my head...but couldn't get it to come out my lips. So I know I was the partner that just laid there...waiting for him to finish...hoping it would be over as quickly as possible. That really had to make my H feel great too. Not that my 1st H cared, but I'm sure my 2nd did. As you guys know all too well (and some of us women too) it's no fun having a partner that doesn't participate...they just go through the motions to get it over with.
Because I couldn't get past that stupid/awkward/self-conscious feeling I couldn't enjoy sex. Therefore it made it so easy for me to not want/or think about it.
I just have to wonder if some of the LDW out there aren't going through that exact same thing. I happened to be able to get past that on my own...I guess you could say I had an epiphany of sorts. But most people don't have an anvil drop on their heads that make them go "DOH!"
The hard thing with people like that (myself included) is finding out whether they really want to make the change...do they think the relationship is worth it? Are you worth it? Or more importantly (in my mind) is...do they think they are worth it? They are missing out on one of the most rewarding parts of a loving relationship, something that can only be shared between two people (normally anyway). It's something that doesn't include the children, or in-laws...that's why it's intimate. In order to allow yourself to be intimate you have to place value on both your partner....and yourself.
Just my humble little ole opinion....yet again :-)
Thank-you, Lass. It's amazing how you can get more sympathy and caring over the Internet than from the person whom you've given you life to.
I know my W has demons.
She says that her self-image is rapidly improving and that's why she feels confident in denying me. She's lost probably 15 lbs and has started dressing with more style. Her IQ is higher than mine and she knows it.
She's an Adult Child of an Alcoholic (ACoA). Perhaps she figures it's her turn to dominate and control and the less she sympathises with me the easier it is. Maybe the narcissism of her father has rubbed off on her.
Don't get sucked into this... Like someone could figure out 25 years of marriage within a day from hearing only one side.
I do like to think of women who love to love their husbands. My mother was one such person and, from what I later heard from my sister, she was very unhappy when she became too sick to have sex. Today would have been their 54th anniversary.
Ok, so your wife has a high IQ and she's stated that her self-image is increasing...but for me that doesn't connect with being more confident in denying you. That sounds more like a control issue. Even wonderful people can be controlling, as we all know.
My mother is a WONDERFUL person too, but I've seen her manipulate the heck out of my dad...she's LD as well. My mother has a very high IQ, but she thinks she's not smart...go figure.
Anita - not sure this post really had a point to it.
What I gather from your post is that significant strides will only be made whne the LD spouse actually identifies the problem and actually does something about it. The man in the picture can only provie minimal help. You had to build your own self esteem and body image. I know my wife has HUGE body image problems. But you fixed your problems by making a major effort, many LD women don't have the drive to fix the problem. Unfortunately my wife really has no desire, she has told me before that if she never had sex again, that would be ok. She does not masturbate and we rarely make love, so I guess she is probably right, that there is very little desire.
In my own situation, I am the one that wants TONS of affection and sex. I also like to take my time at sex, on some occasions, sex should take hours, and be multiorgasmic. My wife is the one watching the clock, we have to get me done so she can get back to her all important sleep (funny how LD women are always tired).
The just do it approach, this borders on Mercy sex. Sex with someone that is not into it is NOT worthwhile. It actually violates my integrity.
I guess the biggest problem about the whole situation is the "Desire" problem. I can not understand how anyone could actually love their spouse and yet not desire them. THis is impossible for me. I have no idea what a LD spouse is thinking, why would they want such a meaningless relationship like that of brother and sister. Honestly, if you don't want passion, why even be married? It makes so little sense to me. So even if I was making love to her 100 times a year, if I have to initiate every single time, if she never shows real desire for me, then it is all mercy sex, and I will still have to divorce her. I guess what I am really trying to say is that I want the true passionate marriage, and unfortuantely, I think I married one of those women that has no realistic hope of ever getting there.
Yes...unfortunately she is going to have to decide to make changes...you won't be able to do it for her. You however can help her to discover the problem (I had a very good idea what my LDH's problem was, and it ended up my hunch was correct)...then be supportive and encouraging if she chooses to attempt change. One of the truly difficult things for me was finding the approach with my LDH that worked. Believe me I know how difficult doing that can be as well. I know what it feels like to want your spouse so badly it hurts and you get absolutely nothing in return...but yet you lie next to him/her every night aching to be touched, or to touch them without being rebuffed or feeling that they've given in under duress.
It's not uncommon though IMO that the LD watches the clock...in hopes that things will just get over with. It's horrible too...because you're absolutely correct...it's just the same as mercy sex to me as well. I've battled with that issue in my current R. I'm always the one having to initiate now...and it frustrates me to no end. Now I have to deal with feelings of resentment every time we do have sex...because once again...I had to initiate it, he didn't. And I do agree with you to some point on the "Just do It" approach...I know it may feel like mercy sex...it may even be mercy sex. But in order to get past the lack of desire...your W will have to "just do it" to help her get past the body image/self-conciousness/awkwardness/feelings of stupidity...whatever it is. Can you think of any other situation in your life...where you wanted to change something, about yourself in particular...where you didn't decide to take action and "just do it"?
Unfortunately I've been on both sides of this fence...neither is pleasant...in fact both sides are downright painful...and each side has a very difficult time understanding how the other can possibly be making such a big deal out of this.
