Friends, Squatters & Lurkers--Fishbowl musings

[Underdog]

Joanne,

I don't know if it's been discussed here or not. We've discussed lying, but in general terms. These are my thoughts and opinions, and I respect the fact that others might not agree with me or have other ideas. So I hope the forum is open for discussions in the "cafeteria" style: that is, take what you think might work and leave the rest as something to consider.

Believe it or not, I was a teenager who lied to her parents to justify the means as well as the end. My dad is a retired cop and my mother is a strong disciplinarian, and they both took me to task for this. Basically, I lied because I hated the structure of the boundaries they placed on me. I wanted some flexibility in my life and they were unwilling to bend. (Yes, I was the oldest child.)

Since nobody gave my parents or me a manual, we fought like cats and dogs, I still lied, I got grounded for much of my junior and senior years and we all ended up frustrated. They lost respect for me, and I was angry with them.

We have discussed some of this after the fact, and here is what we learned. I'll put my perspective first.

I was a good girl, a nice girl, I had a job and I made straight As. I hung with a crowd that was basically nice but we tended to find trouble... or trouble found us. Not horribly BAD trouble, but trouble nonetheless. I think if my parents had let me make a few mistakes to learn from them, I would have quickly seen their rules as protective rather than stringent.

My parents both grew up in the 1950s--the time of Elvis and teenage rebellion. They were the teens, and they knew what kids were doing. I had the only parents in my group of friends who KNEW the score... and it pissed me off. They had friends who lost lives or made life altering choices that were tragic, and they did not want to see me fall into the same trap. They cared about what happened to me and my friends, and their rules reflected their intolerance for diversion.

So I would tell them I was going to the movies when I was actually attending an unsupervised party with drinking. Inevitably, the cops would be called to the party and my ass was grass... which was pretty typical for me. I managed to escape some of the time, but I was pretty much always at the wrong place at the wrong time.

They caught me redhanded. And when I was dragged to the living room for THE TALK, each round would begin with the following statement: "We caught you redhanded and you better not lie, or the punishment will be twice as bad." A few of the times, I did lie (did I think they were stupid?) And the punishment reflected the lie more than the crime.

What I've learned from this is that lying is a boundary for sure. But being on the opposite side, why is lying preferable to telling the truth? What makes the person fear honesty?

I was held to a standard that existed merely because of fear. My parents lumped me into a group of people who had committed their crimes, and I was not permitted a say in the process. I really wish my parents had said, "Bets, we'll let you do it your way for now. But if it requires modification due to poor choices, we WILL step in."

Your H? I realize he's not a child. And chances are his upbringing is why he lies. The sins of the parents made this a preference. I found what helped me stay honest with my parents was when they told me what goods they had on me...

Now it might seem awfully controlling to a spouse. But you can mention in the convo that because of the past history of lies, you no longer find credibility with them. Let them know that they are working with distrust sitting in between you. And make doggone sure that you don't react like an angry parent when you hear what you don't want to hear.

As a result of my own past in lying, I am very different with D10. I consistently tell her that I might not like some of her choices, and if I don't, I'm allowed to feel that way. But unless it's catastrophic, I work very hard at biting my tongue. There are cases when she senses my disapproval and comes unglued. That is a typical reaction stemming from guilt. I usually find that she feels worse about what happened than I do, and we talk about the process.

She's growing up to be a nice person. I hope the communication helps on that score. My mom has commented to me that she is very pleased at how well we work with each other. I know my mom wishes we could have had that R when I was growing up. But our dynamics were different and I do a whole lot more reading in the self help arena.

Let's start the dialogue with a question. Joanne, why do you think your H lies?

Betsey