can't help but say that I'm pissed off to find you still struggling and hear that CAW is still waffling but I think you've hit on some very important things.
CAW isn't the person you knew and may not likely return to being that person you knew and liked.
What can you do about that? Nothing!
What can you do? enjoy YOUR life, do things for YOU! You know the drill...you've done it at times before don't do it as a means to draw CAW out do it because it will make your life full whatevers going to happen with you and CAW is going to happen but the sooner you start dropping that rope and living for you (not saying to wrap the rope up and put it away just drop it for now) not changing what you are doing once you get busy living life and leave CAW to her own devices If she somewhere along the line chooses to pick up the rope that's fine but if not you'll at least be taking care of you and enjoying life for a change...maybe someday the rope will be put away or the frayed ends will be mended and you each will hold an end again.
I am so sorry that you have continued to struggle with this.
I know that Betsy made the very difficult decision that it was time for her and her husband to sign the divorce papers. That he would never be who she wanted. And there was some thought that it might be kinder to let him go...as he could never be what she needed.
Have you been reading her threads?
I'm not encouraging you to divorce your wife...
But, I'm hoping that if you begin talking to Bets...or reading her threads, you will find some comfort or wisdom that I can't give you right now.
I second LL's advice. Focusing on YOU is what you CAN do.
I can relate to everything you're saying in your posts. I've realized many of the same things in my own situation.
Anyway, I'm officially on hiatus from here these days. I need that. But occasionally stopping in to see how others are doing and wanted to lend support if not any useful wisdom.
Like Wonder, I'm officially on hiatus, but I wanted to check in with a few folks before I hit my massive and ever-increasing to do list here at work.
I'm not starting another thread, at least right now, because I don't want to hash out my confusion on line for the indefinite future. Your post really resonated with me and I want to let you know that I'm listening.
PIB, I haven't discussed filing right now. I know that for the time being, I don't want to reconcile. That makes me officially a WAW. I haven't ruled it out some day down the road, but I'm definitely not ruling it in.
Let me explain...
KAW, like you, I realize that Mr. Wonderful is no longer the guy I married. Nor am I the woman he married either. That's good, in many ways, but not so good in others. Next month marks our 14 year wedding anniversary, though we've been together almost 16 (technically speaking).
I'm confused about my feelings for him. I think most of them are combination of pity, empathy and compassion... throw in a little Catholic guilt for feeling bad about not wanting to give him another chance and I'm feeling a little off kilter.
But more often than not, I realize that if God has a hand in helping both of us to be happy, this might be the most important crossroads ever. I realize that clinging to the past is something that is harmful to me, and will not help me resolve my feelings somewhere down the line. Because the simple fact is he's just at the beginning of his soul searching journey.
I'm desperately afraid of living a Groundhog Day existence as well, KAW. I don't want to be one of the BB posters who comes back here in 2 years with the same old stuff resurfacing... and having talked myself into feeling that staying married on his terms is the noble thing to do. Does this make sense?
I'm not going to persuade you to DO anything specific, KAW. But to really listen to your heart. I think your heart is trying to tell you that settling for the crumbs from CAWs table is detrimental to you... therefore, you must really examine your own soul and desires to challenge you to think outside the box.
From what I've read on your threads all along, you and CAW are friends. I believe that the basis of any R should begin with this concept. It's good for your children, and it's good for you.
I can only tell you what I DO know about my own sitch, regardless of whether I file now or at the end of the year or next summer. The only thing I want to commit to Mr. Wonderful is to be his friend, in whatever capacity that term may take.
I want to be present for him as he goes on his soul searching journey. I want to be able to take him to my parents' house for holidays (they love him dearly as a son, and he misses them an awful lot). I want to have the option to go camping as a family without the pressure of wanting more from him. I don't want to be his lover--it's just not good for me. My own solo journey has taken me places where I realize this is a part of my soul that is so interconnected with the heart, mind and body, and I just don't want to confuse myself or him by allowing that to happen.
If we are truly meant to be together, he will want to do the self work necessary to heal... without strings attached. Yes, the DB journey we have all traveled and come to understand so well. I cannot take him back--ever--if he is not willing to do the work. If he doesn't want to do it, there is no penalty if we are just friends. I accept him the way he is, and will continue to respect him as a friend and father to my children.
Let me preface what PIB said because I want this to be a matter of public record. I will always love Mr. Wonderful. That will never die.
I think the same will be true with you and CAW, regardless of any outcome. It's really and truly a blessing to have one person who sets no conditions on love. The bible tells us of faith, hope and love, love is the greatest of all. Well, the love may take on a different shape, but that is not always a bad thing.
Maybe the 2 of you might be happier being the best of friends without all these expectations in the middle? I'm certainly not advocating taking any measures, KAW... just wanting to give you some things to ponder as you begin your night shift soon.
It's not an easy mission to inventory your soul at its most bare and raw state. The fact is, I think for several months you have been saying loud and clear: "I want a woman who wants me as I am. And I no longer feel as though I want to continue reliving the shoe dropping for the rest of my days."
Yes, it's a frightening thought.
I read what you wrote to Triple J on his thread, and it was eloquent and dead center on. You're so wise and insightful with the rest of us, and I want SO badly for you to be in a state where you can just be at peace. The question is: What does that look like for KAW?
I'm sorry for opening Pandora's box over here, darlin'. But these are very worthwhile questions to answer over the course of time.
As my Friends pal, Meredith, told me, as long as the decision is not a knee jerk reaction to an event or a conversation, you can make this answer be what truly lies in your heart.
(((((KAW)))))
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
The comments in your threads are very insightful. Your situation is like mine. We have been in a very long journey. We know our W has changed into a different person that what we fell in love with. Do you still want to continue this journey?
I don't know the answer either. I only know at the moment, for my kids' shake, it is better if I still continue DBing. But I know that I must find my happiness myself. When I am happy, whether my W is with me or not will not be big issue anymore.
Oh, my gosh... Betsey... you get me thinking and are always so eloquent.
When we begin this journey, if we truly want to save our M, we take that look inside ourselves and see what it is we want to change. As the mantra goes "work on you." Finally, we are able to look back at who we were and realize we weren't who we should have been. But with that knowledge comes the fact that we DO like who we have become.
We spend so much time WANTING our WAS to come home... to save us, to be that wonderful person they WERE when we met them.
Then, finally, we take that look at THEM and realize that maybe its not worth it to our soul to be with someone that seems to think we are somehow second rate. We become comfortable and happy with ourselves and at that point we realize our worth. And we are worth MORE than walking on eggshells, being rejected, having to live up to some wacky standard that our WAS set. They don't know what THEY want in themselves... how can they possibly know what they want in us? And they hold their arms up, they push us away. They rejected us, they betrayed us, surely we can't be wonderful human beings or why would they have done that?
So, finally we stand up straight, hold our heads up and realize who we are. We are valuable. We are worth loving and caring about. We want someone to love the wonderful person we are... and unfortunately, the WAS is still very busy thinking about themselves and only themselves. They don't want to give, they live an incredibly selfish existence. No... that is no longer for me.
Like Betsey said, if H ever wanted to come back, he'd have to do a lot of work, in many, many ways. And I don't see him doing it, either. I know I'm tired of devaluing myself to stay in a M where I am not loved or accepted. If I have another R, I want someone who is generous enough to think about my needs and brave enough to tell me if I'm not meeting his.
Love is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. That's the kind of love I want, and the love I will give. I have always loved my husband. I can forgive him. I know that. But I also know that I am not what he wants now.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
All that kept running through my head as I read was "KAW deserves better"...what shape or form or time frame, I don't know, but like LL I'm really IRKED at your W for keeping you on this roller coaster so long.
Shiny
P.S. if CJ had not made a dramatic reaffirmation of his desire for this M to work and his love for me in Feb. of '03...if OW were still lurking, and CJ was still being mean and flip floppy?......I really don't think we'd be together...
Sorry to be absent again and I don't wish to imply that I'm ignoring your thought provoking assistance.
... but for now I have to put any thoughts my M with CAW aside for the moment and just let fate run its course for the time being. As I had mentioned FIL has cancer. Last week he had his first dose of chemotherapy. It nearly did him in. The blood transfusions they gave him didn't take and it became so bad that when calls were made, it was feared that those traveling from as far as Florida would not arrive in time to say their goodbyes. To everyone's delight, he had made it through the night and steadily has been regaining his vitals. Throughout the days spent at the hospital, we slowly discovered CAW's parents had been withholding much about her father's ailment. The cancer was much more advanced than we were led to believe. A "mass" in the liver we were told of, turned out to be a very diseased bile duct and it has spread into the lymph nodes. The doctor's recommendation of the chemo doses were meant to be only a hopeful deterrent to the spread of the cancer in order to buy him a little more time. It didn't work and if anything made him even weaker.
So now its basically a waiting game, for lack of a better phrase. A week or two ... or ... a month or two, no one is willing to say, but is what is on everyone's mind.
So for now, my life's problems seem very insignificant in comparison, so I'm casting them aside now. Not even room in my head to contemplate your wonderful responses at this time, Betsey and Holdingon . Altho I want to mention to Holdingon that while reading your post it did strike me like poetry and Betsey ... when the time comes for me to come back to my issues, I will return to your post and reread it with the upmost concentration.
PnB and Shiny, thanks for your continued support. Miss chatting with you gals alot. Will try to make it up soon.
Raindeer I'm with you all the way with what you said.
I will state for the record, that I recognize this as one of those life experiences I had mentioned about that has the ability to trigger a re-evaluation of one's current belief system and I think I'm seeing some of that happening to CAW in the last few days. We'll see.
Sorry to say, it may be a while longer before spending any amount of time chatting with you folks. Altho I do miss having you folks sit on my shoulder and whispering in my ear, if you know what I mean.
Well, I'll try to catch up as much as I can tonite ...
Betsey 