I am guilty of this also. What I mean by it is that my H does not ML in a away that is to please me, but just to satisfy his own needs. I am sure he would not agree mind you :~) (and i don't think you will either!!)
But he can be watching Tv, reading a book, on the 'puter whatever and then get the desitre to have sex and think I also have the desire. The truth is that YES I want to have sex but not with someone who has not given me enough attention or romance for me to want to do it with them
Ah, but that's not the case here. I'm VERY attentive to her needs. If you've read any of my other threads, you know that I always put her first - always. I do everything I can to set the mood, and she ignores it. I make a tremendous effort to spend quality time with her. I plan getaways. I pack the kids off to Grandma's. I but her flowers. I buy her hockey tickets and a suite at nice hotel to spend the night after the game (SHE likes hockey - not me). If I can get her to cooperate at all, I spend lots of effort on foreplay. Ninety-nine plus percent of the time I perform oral on her until she gets her O before she even touches me. I'm sure that what you describe happens quite a lot - but I can honestly say that it doesn't in my M.
The reason (I believe) that we HDW's get such low esteem etc. Is that we are being neglected/ignored/dismissed..whatever you wish to call it in the relatinship. Your LDW does't have that problem...she knows you want her. I know for myself that in my R with my LDH I'm left to assume he still finds me attractive etc. He doesn't show it...well, ok he didn't up until recently...things are very, very slowly moving forward. But when you are constantly rebuffed, put off...or worse of all simply ignored when it comes to physical/emotional affection it's going to affect your self esteem and how you see yourself. For the LDW & the HDW it's not the same situation at all...hope that helps a bit too :-)
And that is where the catch 22 is. You don't want to ML to your H because he doesn't romance you enough. He doesn't want to romance you because you don't want to ML to him. So my question is how do you fix that?
Pink said: ---------- I am guilty of this also. What I mean by it is that my H does not ML in a away that is to please me, but just to satisfy his own needs. I am sure he would not agree mind you :~) (and i don't think you will either!!)
But he can be watching Tv, reading a book, on the 'puter whatever and then get the desitre to have sex and think I also have the desire. The truth is that YES I want to have sex but not with someone who has not given me enough attention or romance for me to want to do it with them ----------
"Baby, I really do want to make love to you more often, but I need your help. I need more romance and foreplay. I need you to pay attention to me, and not just when you realize you are horny"
Pink, have you spelled out your needs to him in no uncertain terms?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
wildebube said: --------------- Funny you should say that. My W doesn't MB. She believes that it's morally wrong. BUT, in spite of the miserable SL I've described here, in spite of the fact that she's been turning me down with such regularity over our 28 years of M, in spite of the fact that I've begged for sex (to no avail), SHE told the C that we don't have sex often enough!! I've bent over backwards to try to resolve every excuse she's come up with. I've begged, I've initiated - only to be turned down, I've cried, I've talked, I've complained, I've dragged us into counseling, not once, but twice, and SHE complains to the C about not enough sex! ---------------
Michele talks about doing a 180 in TSSM. If what you are doing is not helping, then stop doing it.
I used to make my wife so comfortable and loved, she would drop off to sleep on the couch. I would go over to her, kiss her on the cheek, cover her with a blanket and go to bed alone - then lie awake for hours agonizing over her seemingly complete ignorance of my needs, and the fact that I spent the day pandering to her every need. I did that for at least a decade.
All the while I thought I was being Mr. Perfect, she still had issues with me.
One day I stopped doing it. No more blankets. If she went to sleep on the couch, she woke up cold. There was a perfectly warm bed with me in it, just waiting on her. Shortly after I had started to give up on our relationship, We both saw Michele on a news broadcast. I bought the book as a last ditch effort. I read it and handed it to my wife to read. That was the beginning of change in our relationship. You can read my threads to see how I went from anger to healing.
In my case, giving up on the relationship created distance and in effect, a 180. It wasn't a good way to go about it, but it got good attention. I recommend you read what Michele has to say on 180's and a more sound approach to same.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I just found SSM about three weeks ago - about the time I registered here. I just finished it last week and am now trying some of Michele's ideas. It's way too early to make any definitive statements, but we've ML twice in the past 10 days - and twice is my yearly average (yes, I do keep score).
wildebube said: --------------- I just found SSM about three weeks ago - about the time I registered here. I just finished it last week and am now trying some of Michele's ideas. It's way too early to make any definitive statements, but we've ML twice in the past 10 days - and twice is my yearly average (yes, I do keep score). ---------------
Good deal!
Oh, and it is ok to keep score. I keep score myself even though my wife and I are a good distance along the path to recovery. For what it is worth, we have gone from a few times a year to 5+ times a week. We are still working on the desire and passion, but even if we never get there, we are beginning to have fun trying.
I am just about ready to quit keeping count. I wanted to get to a place where it wasn't an issue any more, and I think we are finally getting close.
You can do this thing. Just make up your mind not to give up what you have started. Oh, and be prepared to change some things about yourself as well :-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
HP, Don't worry about the laugh thing. I'm always kidding. I'll be the one telling a joke as I jump off the ledge.
This weekend, W clarified what she said the other day. She told me that she thinks several times a day about how she should be wanting sex, but not as often that she really wants it. I told her that her "NO" response to me was a real killer and took me back to the first time she said "NO" 23 years ago. Even if she wouldn't (MB for me), acting like she'll consider it would be such a boost for me. (Am I easy or what?)
Later that day, I told her that I wanted to say something that I really didn't want her to respond to, just listen. I explained to her that her refusal to let me F**k her from behind (my fantasy position) had become a symbol to me of her overall rejection of me. I explained how one book (Sheet Music, Kevin Leman) suggests it in front of a mirror to maintain eye contact which helps some women who see it as "animalistic behavior". I said that there could never be a time where she would look more beautiful to me than that.
Her response (which I asked her not to give)? "Why would you use the one word that you know I hate (F**k) to talk to me about sex?"
