I've read several of the women state that the lack of sex in their M has made them feel a loss of esteem and less like a woman. I think everyone that said that has identified themselves as HDW.
I've never heard anything like that as a complaint. Admittedly my W is LD. (Her admission, not just my label. Actually, she's admitted that her drive is LOWER than mine, but never that she's LD.) But I've never heard that my approaching her for sex, which I started out doing many times daily, now not at all, is important for her to feel pretty, sexy or worthwhile.
What I have heard from her is how she will undress in front of me, have sex with the lights on, and swing into the 69 position (it's happened 2-3 times). This is in response to discussions about things she's refused to try. It is followed by her saying, "So I'm a lot better than many other women. You don't have it so bad." Additionally, she estimates the frequency of sex in the beginning WAYYYYY higher than I remember it.
I've differentiated enough to know that my desires are OK, even if she doesn't want to meet them. What I don't know is if this reflects the typical HD/LD conflict or unique to my M.
Any help I can get from the Ws (HD or LD) on these issues or info from the guys about responses they've gotten from their Ws would be great. I want to give my W the credit she deserves, but I'm determined to call her on whatever crap she's dishing out. I'm not good enough at PMing yet to know which is which.
Hi Mike... Your wife has not been in the position of being the higher desire partner. Even though you have backed off, she is not feeling rejected, not feeling unattractive by your lack of interest, not questioning her own appeal. She probably just feels relief that you aren't annoying her as much. She knows that even though you aren't overtly expressing your sexual needs right now, they are right there under the surface, waiting for her to come to her senses. This is different from what HDW's feel.
She is telling you that does have some desire, which is a good thing. SSM mentions how spouses give different answers to how often they ML, based on their perception of what it feels like, not on reality. I don't think she is necessarily "dishing out crap"...it may feel like she is ML more often.
Are the two of you at a sexual standstill now, or can you discuss the frequency issue and come up with a plan?
Hey Barn . . . . Im going to make a broad generalized statement here and say that ALL LD wives overestimate the frequency and quality of marital encounters. I think its because its a chore for them, much like cutting the grass . . . "Damn, you mean I gotta mow the lawn again?! I just cut it a couple of days ago......It hasn't rained has it?"
Mike, This is just a guess but I'd have to say that it is your desire for her, and not the actual initiation which makes her feel sexy and womanly.
So even if you back off, she still knows that you want her and so she feels desirable.
I will say this, though: I don't think that simply because a woman has a man wanting sex with her several times a day that she automatically feels sexy. I even think that it could cause the opposite feelings...and she could feel like a fraud or, worse, turn it into a reason to lose respect for the man. Kindof a "What is wrong with him that he wants a frigid acting woman?" type thing..
I will say that I STILL believe that an LD woman has a better self image than an HD woman because most of the LD women that I know in person (not pointing a finger at anyone from the bb) would lay down and die if they got rejected once, let alone repeatedly.
But I don't think that the fact that they are pursued for sex = high self esteem necessarily.
Mike, I think if what you are looking for is your wife to be motivated to fix your sex life because she feels like less of a woman, then you will have to remove your desire from the picture completely--in essence, become LD yourself.
I can hear you laughing all the way in the midwest.
The one with a full tummy and a problem in her pants who wants a super short haircut wrote: I can hear you laughing all the way in the midwest. _______________________________
I'm not laughing about anything. I'm so bewildered I can't see straight. IHJ asked if we could talk about the frequency of our sex life. W wants to, but I've decided not to accept mercy sex any longer (uninvolved and unenthusiastic). So, she's able to say that it's my fault we're not having sex. I think that's a big deal for her, but that's just my opinion.
Last night, telling her I didn't want a big discussion just an honest answer, I asked how often she thinks about sex. She asked, "Do you mean as in wanting it or thinking that I should be thinking about it?" I didn't know how to answer, so I said, "You wanting it." She said she really didn't know. (Thanks )
Then I asked if she ever MB. She said, "Oh yeah, but not since we had sex last." (2 months ago). It turns out that she MB several times between Jan. and April. Then she said that she "tries not to" because it makes her mad that I'm not doing it with her and it's not the way to handle the situation. WTF????
Since it was one of the few (I'm being generous here) times that I've ever gotten from her any suggestion of sexual behavior or desire, I was turned on by it. She noticed it and said so. I then told her I'd like her to show me. She asked, "Do you mean MB for you?" "Yep", replied Mr. Cool. And she closed the convo down with, "I could never do that. Nope!"
So, I'm...(I don't know how to describe what I feel). Can anyone make sense of this?
Mike, Has she addressed her lack of interest to her dr? I know when I had my son, it was quite a while before I was interested. I had a really bad pregnancy and delivery and was not particurarly interested in ending up that way again. But I was young.
Maybe she is kinda shy about MBing? Did she grow up in a family where she was taught that touching herself was a bad thing? I wasn't told it was necessarely bad, but was told I shouldn't do that. I was also told that nice girls didn't enjoy sex..... sheesh what was my family thinking? I sometimes have a hard time really letting go with H and showing all my passion, not that we have sex much, hell we don't really have sex at all, but sometimes he wants to engage in oral.
Early in our M, one of the times I was almost begging him to touch me, he blurted out "Geezzz I think you could have sex with anyone." Now what do you suppose THAT did to me? You got it..... I feel I can't be totally myself sexually around him. I am trying to work on those things.
Have you said anything remotely like that to your W? Just a thought.
Quote: "Geezzz I think you could have sex with anyone."
Annette, you never told me that your H was such a smooth operator! Lately, I've been thinking of telling my W as she gets in the minivan "Gas, grass or ass; nobody rides for free." And when we stop at traffic lights, I tell the guy in the car next to me, "If this van's rockin', don't bother knockin'." In fact, the other day I was vigorously rubbing my face with a paper towel, and she asked me what I was doing. I told her, "Cleaning off a place for you to sit, baby!"
Now I know I'll have to be more inventive, like your H.
Hairdog - who always asks his W to "show me your T!ts!!"
Aw Mikey, I was going for the laugh from a depressed guy..what the heck is the matter with me. Sorry for that.
Listen, I think you are putting the cart before the horse here. The things you are asking from your wife (would you mb for me?) are things that require intimacy. As you know, intimacy is the very first thing to go when the sex starts to fizzle. All of a sudden you feel like you can't be yourself anymore because it is "too much" for the current relationship.
About the frequency thing..you know, that was one of the very first conversations we had. Hammering out a frequency that suits you both might seem like an awkward and 'businesslike' place to begin but that's just how it had to be. There was no way to establish the intimacy FIRST, it had to come from frequent sex. Then we could get to a place where we could start to act our true sexual selves around each other. As you know, it varies (depending on where H is at in his cycle, lol) on whether we are actually living that with each other.
But here is the good news: No matter how long his Weird Cycle lasts, as soon as we get back to ML again, we are rightthere. We never ever go back to square one. We may go days with no real sexual CONNECTION with each other, but once it is reestablished, it is magic and we're on a roll again. I never feel that I will not able to be my sexual self again, I just get frustrated with having to wait out his cycle. I don't know if this is hopeful or not. It might sound like a crappy way to live your life to you, I don't know.
I think there are so many positives in your situation..just being able to open this dialogue with her is HUGE. As time goes on, I would expect that you will get many more glimpses into her sexual self, and each one will be more accurate and telling than the last. I found with my H that he was really reluctant to "show" that part of himself to me so he would fudge the truth a bit and then later on tell me that whatever he said wasn't exactly the whole truth.
Good luck and keep the dialogue going, no matter how depressing it is to you right now! Learn to ask the important and timely questions (instead of kicking yourself after the fact, as I always do, LOL) such as, when she said that she sometimes mbates because you're not doing it with her, you could ask "What would you like for me to do in the future to make sure that I am available for your initiation?"
To let her know that: A. You are willing to change your behavior and this is not all about HER changing; and B. Yes she is expected to initiate if she wants sex and not expect you to read her mind and then give her the killer romantic move she's been fantasizing about.
Quote: Then she said that she "tries not to" because it makes her mad that I'm not doing it with her and it's not the way to handle the situation. WTF????
Barn,
Funny you should say that. My W doesn't MB. She believes that it's morally wrong. BUT, in spite of the miserable SL I've described here, in spite of the fact that she's been turning me down with such regularity over our 28 years of M, in spite of the fact that I've begged for sex (to no avail), SHE told the C that we don't have sex often enough!! I've bent over backwards to try to resolve every excuse she's come up with. I've begged, I've initiated - only to be turned down, I've cried, I've talked, I've complained, I've dragged us into counseling, not once, but twice, and SHE complains to the C about not enough sex!
I have to admit that her statement really confused me. If she thinks we don't have enough sex, then why she not doing it? Of course, the C asked her the same thing is a little less accusative manner: something innocuous like, "And why do you think that is?" W responded with her usual litany of excuses. It seemed plain to me that the C wasn't buying it, but W didn't see that at all. She (the C) suggested some things to do to overcome those excuses, but we all knew that if those excuses were shot down, W would just come up with new ones.
But the point here is why do the LD partners refuse to tango, then either complain about not enough sex, MB to take care of themselves, or both? I don't get it. I'm no shrink, but it sure looks to me like there's something more going on here.
)
And she closed the convo down with, "I could never do that. Nope!"
