The heart to conquer it...

[shinybear]

Hi Sage!

Okay now I have to go back to the end of your last thread to see what "ghosts" and such were stirred up....It's actually a bit of a relief to know that our Queen of DBing is also still struggling some.

Not that I WANT you to be!! Oh heck, you know what I mean...I'm just relieved that even with all that IS going right (which echoes my sitch to some degree), there's still stuff to work through.

Things sound so great for you Sage, even with the crazed co-worker!

Shiny

[sage]

So at one critical point last night I was certain I would be posting to you all a "had a major, horrible backslide last night" post...instead...thanks to the wonderfulness of h and a wee bit of DB'ing, I'm posting another "made another strong step forward" post.

h had school last night. I worked a bit late and then went to the grocery store. I had just gotten home and was making dinner when he got home. It was kind of whirlwind.

He told me how excited he was about my decision to leave work. He's completely supportive which is great. thing is, after making some mental steps yesterday about quitting, I may be changing my mind back. I told h that I didn't want him to be disappointed if I decided to stay...that I was trying to decide what to do.

We started a more in depth conversation about it and I told him that I had been yearning to quit for a while now but had always convinced myself that I COULDN'T. Yesterday was the first time when I allowed myself to believe that I COULD. That I was the only thing standing in my way. And, once I had that realization, the desire to quit seemed to ebb a bit -- I said to him "once I decided I could do it, had the freedom to do it, I didn't feel as strong a pull anymore".

He seemed perplexed by that. Scrunched up his face a bit (my projection?), said he didn't think he'd ever felt that way.

I can't remember what exactly he SAID but I felt as though he was kind of picking at me for potentially changing my mind.

So out popped "well, you've changed your mind about things. You once wanted to end our marriage. To get a divorce. Remember? I feel like you are judging me for this decision."

I didn't say it in an angry tone. But I was HORRIFIED as soon as it was out of my mouth.

Where the heck did THAT come from??? And what was my point in bringing THAT up? Goodness -- it was awful.

His face closed down. His eyes got dark. He said "I don't understand what that has to do with anything and I don't want to talk about it anymore."

I said "please don't do that. Don't pull away. I'm sorry I said it."

He said "I want to watch the game."

So, even though my heart was cracking I left and gave him space. When the game was over I came back up and said "I don't even know what point I was trying to make and I'm incredibly sorry that I said that."

He responded "I don't give a crap what you do with your job. I was just trying to talk with you about it."

I said "yes, I know".

I retreated to cry in the other room.

I seriously was dismayed by what I had said and also my use of the word "judging" with him.

Not a minute later he came to the room. He said "honey, stop crying, stop feeling badly. stand up and give me a hug." He continued "please, stop making yourself feel badly about this. I can't see you this way. There's nothing that you could ever say that should make you feel this badly about yourself." Then he leaned down and whispered in my ear "I don't want a divorce."

Sigh.

I have been waiting to hear those words for more than a year and a half. It may seem absurd given all the positives in my sitch but h had never reconfirmed his desire to stay married verbally. But now he has.

He asked me to come sit with him while he studied. So I did.

I'm feeling overwhelmed with good luck and gratitude. His reactions to me are unbelievably positive and thoughtful.

As for "things that don't work" -- the conversation had quite a few negative elements (all my doing) -- it was late, he was watching tv, I was emotional, I brought something loaded up that actually had little to do with what was going on, I was reactive, I made negative judgements about his intent, I was defense...blah, blah.

thank goodness I had a few points scored up!

As for the comment itself -- I think it was a horrible combo of reacting emotionally to my lunch with mom, a dinner with an old friend the other day, my work sitch and then feeling like h wasn't hearing that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but that I was concerned about his reaction AND that I wanted some time to mull things over.

Anyway -- no excuses -- just an attempt to understand how I let myself get caught in that web!

Sage

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Sage,

All I can do is say, "Been there, done that."

I've made incredibly stupid mistakes, said dumb things to my husband. And he comes out of the situation shining.

I think the point is this:

For the most part, when I'm making a mistake, he's doing things right...and vice versa.

So, what an incredible step forward y'all took.

That's great!

And good job for realizing right away that what you had said was inappropriate.

And I totally understand what you mean about having felt trapped in something...realizing that you HAVE a choice, and then feeling like you can hang on a little longer.

I think that's very common!

Sending you hugs.

[karen812]

Hi Sage,
That sit. turned out very well considering! You have built up enough blocks to sustain minor setbacks!! And H came with you!

OK, can we call you the "Brain Pickee"? Have you ever contemplated giving up "power" by changing YOUR behaviors and H not owning up to his own mistakes/actions? A woman at work thinks that I am giving my H too much benefit of the doubt and that I shouldn't blame only myself. I don't blame only myself, but blaming him isn't getting me anywhere, is it? Were you afraid of being a doormat by forgiving him for A and the like?

Thanks so much, Sage!
Karen812

[psluke]

Then he leaned down and whispered in my ear "I don't want a divorce."


I have been waiting to hear those words for more than a year and a half. It may seem absurd given all the positives in my sitch but h had never reconfirmed his desire to stay married verbally. But now he has.

I am so happy you got this Ms. Sage! I know you have been wanting/needing in a way to hear those words! So something really good came of the evening and you guys did weather the storm.

[sage]

OK, can we call you the "Brain Pickee"? Have you ever contemplated giving up "power" by changing YOUR behaviors and H not owning up to his own mistakes/actions? A woman at work thinks that I am giving my H too much benefit of the doubt and that I shouldn't blame only myself. I don't blame only myself, but blaming him isn't getting me anywhere, is it? Were you afraid of being a doormat by forgiving him for A and the like?

Karen -- Hey, I thought you were going to stop talking to those well-meaning friends

I have a thousand thoughts about answering your question...let's see if I can get them out serially

I have certainly had my share of moments of doubt or feeling worried that I was somehow condoning or giving an OK to infidelity by the way that I have approached my sitch. I have also had flashes (sometimes lasting a LONG time) of anger, resentment, worry, blame, etc. I'm certain that there were times when I feared that I was setting myself up, being weak, whatever.

But the crux and tone and foundation of my DB'ing and the way I'm choosing to live my life and be in the marriage is about trying to focus my energies on the places I can control -- that is, me and my behaviors.

Power? Heck, I had plenty of POWER for the first 7 years of my m. and we both paid dearly for it. I am infinitely happier NOW that I've come to realize that being an equal partner with my husband means being as respectful as I can of who he is as a person, an individual and not viewing his gains as my losses and visa-versa.

How do you lose, karen, by making yourself the best, most whole, most integrated, most compassionate person you can be? How does your focus on improving YOU and taking responsibility for what you're bringing to the table in anyway make him more powerful than you are? Have the upper hand? I honestly don't think it's a zero-sum game, Karen, where what you concede he grasps etc.

I have to admit that I've surprised myself, even, by realizing that I don't HAVE to gate my progress on h's willingness to work on his own stuff (which, amazingly, he's clearly picked up and worked on on his own). It's a fundamental principle of DB'ing but it also shows up in so much else I've read or listened to -- "Your buddha nature" (kornfield), "the four agreements" and "the mastery of love" (ruiz), etc.

I don't want power anymore, Karen, over my h or my m. It was a false sense of it anyway because in the end, his desire to leave left me feeling mighty powerless. Now, though, we've each got more harmony than we know what to do with...and that's much more powerful.

Sage

[karen812]

AWESOME STUFF SAGE! I want to be that way! I'm so afraid of being taken advantage of or taken for granted. Hyper-vigilance from the past?

Karen -- Hey, I thought you were going to stop talking to those well-meaning friends

I know! I was just bragging about how I stood up to my C and then friend decided to give me her opinion. Concurring that there should be a date. (But then again-she has D 4 times!) I'm not dumb-I wouldn't let it go on forever! I don't get it. Why are well-meaning friends and fam. NOT well-meaning?

Can you visit my thread for a moment and give me your thoughts?
karen812

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Sage,

You said:

Power? Heck, I had plenty of POWER for the first 7
years of my m. and we both paid dearly for it. I am
infinitely happier NOW that I've come to realize that
being an equal partner with my husband means being as
respectful as I can of who he is as a person, an
individual and not viewing his gains as my losses and
visa-versa.


Wow, that just speaks to me sooo much!

I can totally relate to that.

You said it so right.

Thank you!

Hugs!

[nitaf]

I too had too much power in my R/M. I yearn for equal power
and the feeling of we can agree to disagree. We had gotten to a point where everything was either a debate or a power struggle.

Nitaf

[Lyrael]

Sage-
Okay, I did have a horrible, major backslide last night, precisely because I was FISHING for those words you waited a year and a half to hear. I forced an R talk, and it just became a fight/bitch session.

R talks are almost never a good idea, are they? They just tend to create distance, I think, and I never hear what it is I want to hear, I only reinforce ambivalence on his AND my part. H said last night that "he has been sure in the past that he wanted a divorce, but he didn't feel that way know. Then he said that he was afraid that he may never know what he wants."

I could have validated there, but I obviously didn't, and it took me forever to calm down and be receptive. I am impatient with him not living at home, even though he is now officially spending three nights a week at home. I am kind of being impatient, aren't I?

I am so sorry to hijack your thread - it just all spille dout. What I meant to say was, "I am so proud of you for your wonderful DBing and receptiveness to H!"

Hugs,
Myrrh

P.S. Anyone else ever had an "R talk hangover?" Puffy eyes, hollow feeling in the pit of the stomach, feeling of insecurity in the relationship...does coffee help those?