Quote: I hope this doesn't sound pat but I honestly hold myself 100% for my contribution to the problems in our M and 0% responsible for HIS contributions. that sounds a lot more definitive than it really is, doesn't it?
I'm not sure I really understand this. Are you saying you are not responsible for how he handled it and what he did to contribute to the probs?
Did you expect him to own up to his share? Or to say he was sorry, etc.? Or is that not worth thinking about? Did he blame you outright?
I keep saying that I'm going to quit talking to everybody!! So, here's to quitting unless they are DB'ers or have God-like principles.
Quote: I used to have a similar argument with h myself. Let me ask you this, Karen. Why would you expect h to be nicer and more reassuring to you than you are to yourself?
You just keep hitting me with that one, don't you?
Sage - Sometimes I am cruising along, reading through threads, and a piece of a post just comes out and smacks me - in a good way, of course.
Your comment about being responsible for your H's pain, but not about how he chose to relieve it, really hit me. That is an incredible insight, and one that really helped me understand things even more.
AUGH! I just can't believe how helpful that one tiny statement is to me! Also, understanding deception and an affair as a reaction to pain is a perspective that will allow me to forgive more easily, without taking my or H's contributions to the problem out of the picture.
Just had to say thank you, Sage! Hugs, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Quote: I hope this doesn't sound pat but I honestly hold myself 100% for my contribution to the problems in our M and 0% responsible for HIS contributions. that sounds a lot more definitive than it really is, doesn't it?
I'm not sure I really understand this. Are you saying you are not responsible for how he handled it and what he did to contribute to the probs?
Pretty much. I guess my point is that my h brings his own "baggage" to the table, too (although we've often only focused on mine since mine tends to be overt and his tends to be passive). The best that I can do is manage/alleviate/work on the stuff that I'm contributing.
Quote: Did you expect him to own up to his share? Or to say he was sorry, etc.? Or is that not worth thinking about? Did he blame you outright?
It's not that it's not worth thinking about...it's just that you're expending precious energy on stuff you can't control. I did not expect him to "own up" to his share...part of focusing on me and my behaviors and not him is also about dropping the rope the sense of "you gotta do xyz".
I also didn't make his offering up an apology a condition of my changing and/or a condition of my forgiving him. That's not to say that I didn't yearn for an apology or hope like heck to get one someday...but more to suggest that I didn't say to myself -- "I'll do xyz but no more until he acknowledges his contribution".
Now, note that I'm certainly NOT perfect at any of the above but when I get "stuck" in feeling self-righteous or feeling as though I don't want to work anymore without something from him I tend to stay stuck "internally" as opposed to acting out with him. I may actually pull away a bit, regroup, take some time for myself but I don't get aggressive with him or say "hey, what about your crap" -- I find that that just doesn't work for us.
Other point I'd make is that acknowledging that h doesn't process or articulate stuff in the same mode that I do has been a big relief and a big help.
h did not blame me for his A -- he told me it had nothing to do with me, in fact -- but he did offer up some reasons as to why he was in pain that had to do with me. I think that my h recognizes that he was responsible for his choices but that we were both responsible for where our M was at...
Quote: I keep saying that I'm going to quit talking to everybody!! So, here's to quitting unless they are DB'ers or have God-like principles.
I think this will make a big difference.
Quote:
Quote: I used to have a similar argument with h myself. Let me ask you this, Karen. Why would you expect h to be nicer and more reassuring to you than you are to yourself?
You just keep hitting me with that one, don't you?
Yes...because I think it's tremendously important that you GET IT.
May I make a suggestion? I sense that you haven't fully embraced the notion of focusing on working on yourself w/o the help or "keeping pace" of h, too. What if you set some reasonable time frame for trying it -- I think to be realistic you'd need a 6 month period -- what if you said to yourself...for the next 6 months I will release thoughts of "well, why isn't HE working too" and focus on strengthening myself and our marriage by changing my behaviors. Then, in 6 months, you can take a pulse and see if you're satisfied with the level of changes that h may have made even without your intervention!!! I think if you are totally committed and diligent you may be VERY surprised at what gets accomplished even WITHOUT your FOCUS.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Had a really nice weekend...handed in my final semester deliverable on Friday so I felt FREE! No school until Labor Day. Hooray! I did have a "procrastination" dream last night -- I had 2 items to hand in before midnight, it was 11pm and I hadn't started on either!
Friday night was "Sage solo" night as h was playing poker. I went for a long walk, did some yoga, made myself a nice dinner (getting first great sweet corn around here!), and read and sat outside for a LONG time. Went to bed very early. h called from the game to let me know when he would be home! Very, very sweet and considerate of him!
Saturday we went for a hike. then we came home and relaxed for a while then off to a movie matinee! Walked to the baseball park after the movie (more exercise!) then watched the Sox. Got home late so we had a LONG but relaxing and fun day -- lots of together time!
Yesterday was similar in tone...watched h play baseball in the AM then home for relaxing. Took a long walk (it was either that or a nap!), BBQ'd for dinner, watched tv, bed.
I'm loving the lazy summer weekends!
A bunch of pointed positives from h -- the phone call (big points!) -- lots of good, relaxed talking all weekend. More hangups this weekend but I was able to just go with the flow...I asked h if he thought they were coincidental or pointed...he went with the latter...not sure how we'll handle them. This AM he whispered in my ear "remember you're the love of my life". Wonderful.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Sage- Your solo evening sounds wonderful - good job enjoying your peacefulness!
May I ask about the hangups? Do you mean feelings, or little rough spots with H? And feel free to not clarify if that isn't something you want to go into. I just know that I have definitely learned from your learning, and I feel like you are somewhat further down a road I am taking, so I find your thoughts and experiences very helpful.
Thanks again for the book recommendation, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
May I ask about the hangups? Do you mean feelings, or little rough spots with H? And feel free to not clarify if that isn't something you want to go into. I just know that I have definitely learned from your learning, and I feel like you are somewhat further down a road I am taking, so I find your thoughts and experiences very helpful.
I've got plenty of hangups but in this case I'm talking about "phone" ones -- calls to the house where there's no one on the other end. I mentioned it because last weekend h and I ended up having a "should I be worried" talk about them...
Don't ever hesitate to ask about something for fear of stirring it up...I'd like to think my journey could be helpful if at all possible!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Oh, hysterical - I read about the hangups - as in phone calls. That was definitely a Myrrh moment - as a side note, my H and I have discussed changing our phone number as we have had problems with OW and her current boyfriend calling our house at all hours.
Maybe a change of number would be something to consider? Is your number unlisted? Just some thoughts. Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Quote: May I make a suggestion? I sense that you haven't fully embraced the notion of focusing on working on yourself w/o the help or "keeping pace" of h, too. What if you set some reasonable time frame for trying it -- I think to be realistic you'd need a 6 month period -- what if you said to yourself...for the next 6 months I will release thoughts of "well, why isn't HE working too" and focus on strengthening myself and our marriage by changing my behaviors. Then, in 6 months, you can take a pulse and see if you're satisfied with the level of changes that h may have made even without your intervention!!! I think if you are totally committed and diligent you may be VERY surprised at what gets accomplished even WITHOUT your FOCUS.
This is a really good idea. You're right that I continue to have this attitude that he has to "help" or that he has to work at the R too, and what about his issues, etc. His mom has told him a bazillion times that we should go to MC together. H is not interested, and he usually says, "It's her problem," which causes me to feel angry.
to let me know when he would be home! Very, very sweet and considerate of him!
