The heart to conquer it...

[minnie1]

Hi Sage,

partly feel as though I missed an opportunity to talk more deeply with him...I think I ASSume that h is the one who shelves or dismisses closer communication but I'm starting to think that I am the one who rushes through these moments (for fear of what? being hurt?). Another thing is that in the aftermath of the discussion h said something about working hard to make our M. better and I said something like "It's already good" because I didn't want him to think I was saying it WASN'T (in my fearful reaction) but again, I think I may have missed a chance to hear what areas he'd like to focus on...planning on taking that up with hm again.

As you know, I do the exact same thing. I think that for me it's a fear of not validating, saying the wrong thing, making it worse and of course, FEAR of what he has to say.

I think it's pretty normal considering what we've been through.

Minnie

[BRIDGET]

Hi, hon.

Just letting U know I'm catching up with you.
You sound MAHvelous, as always I love your journalling.
Always inspiring.
You're a rock.

(Hee hee. 'Member when it was "U rock"?)

Thanks, sistah, for all your wisdom.

Love,
Bridget

[sage]

Bridget -
Happy to see you offering some of your magic here over on my thread. A rock, huh? Sometimes I feel like a rockhead! But you guys help me stay strong!

Sage

[sage]

Whew. finally getting a chance to post. it's been a killer day. OK, yah, I've also been crabby! Partly work, partly still having a paper due for school, partly some irkedness that happened last night.

First off...let me say that I'm NOT ranting about something "going on" -- I'm not THERE -- I'm just ranting (ok, semi-ranting) about the residue of STUFF. By the end of this note you'll find me happily DB'ing my heart out.

I came home from work last night normal time. h was already home from his internship (a full day of work). I walked in the house and yelled hello. He replied, came downstairs, etc. He said that he hadn't heard me come into the driveway...hadn't heard my car alarm...I said that I knew we were going out (and we were) immediately so I didn't set the alarm. He said "well, it was kind of like you were in stealth mode".

Sigh.

He didn't say it angrily or defensively or anything negatively. And maybe it's not even making sense to my faithful readers...but I've mentioned before that the time when I come home feels WEIRD sometimes...like he's agitated or like he's hovering around me or something.

What the heck am I interrupting with my arrival? A snack of chocolate covered oreos? Scanning ebay for Hummels? Something sinister? Something better? Worse? Heck, maybe he's reading my thread.

The point is...something feels HIDDEN to me and APPARENTLY something feels, what, STEALTHY, to h. Does he think I'm trying to catch him at something?

It reminds me of the time he told me "Every time you ask me a question it sounds like an inquisition". Note that the questions I was asking were related to what kind of sandwich he ate.

So...I have to admit that I'm annoyed. And there's a part of me that's fearful, too. OK, I'm afraid, dammit. What the hell is up with that?

Is he trying to hide something from me? computer stuff? phone stuff?

He told me over the weekend that he would do anything to make me feel more secure. He told me that he didn't feel as though he were secretive about anything.

But he feels as though I'm in stealth mode?

OK...it took a LONG time to shake the discomfort of that off. Went to buy a dishwasher (finally!), went out to dinner (uncomfortable but "as if"), came home, sat on the couch, hours after the exchange we both loosened up.

Was it me reacting? Or was it him? Who the hell knows.

SO....I don't know...it's bugged me today on and off so here's the best DB'ing I can come up with.

GOAL: Remove any actions that suggest to h that I am in stealth mode -- aka -- trying to catch him at something. Do this by calling him and letting him know what time I am coming home, by using the car alarm, by giving him a minute or two after I walk in the door. Make the environment feel more comfortable, less controlling or questioning. Seek to alleviate the uncomfortableness by being more comfortable and comforting!

*********
On another note -- h got invited to compete for a spot on Law Review -- this is an honor! I know that he will do really well -- he's already completely motivated and planning how to write his competition paper and the assignment doesn't even come out for 10 days!!!!

Sage

[kml]

Sage -
just so you don't think you are a crazy woman - I think his comment is suspicious too.

Now - of course we ASSume he's hiding something bad - but maybe he's working on a surprise for you or something?

I'm just letting you know - there's a fine line between being paranoid and trusting your intuition - I trust you to figure out the difference.

Ellie

[sage]

Totally different feel to being with h last night...I met him after class and we went for pizza and beer (was gonna be martinis and apps but the place was too crowded -- hey, we're adaptable!)

Totally comfortable with each other, lots of good conversation, no feeling of weirdness on my part. Maybe it IS about the "cycle" and could be mitigated by working on the coming home/reconnecting period.

I'm planning on starting a thread over in the KLA section too -- I started listening to the tapes again. I really like to revisit Michele's stuff periodically -- makes me feel as though I won't lose sight of how far we've come and what got us there! Also, it's partly in reaction to h's comment the other day about "making it even better". One of my goals would be to chat with him about that very thing.

He just called from work -- it's very cute because he has to kind of sneak a call in. Very thoughtful and positive!!! He's off to play poker with the boys tonight My plan for the evening is exercise/yoga, doing my nails and a nice glass of white wine, a book, and the deck Quite the overachiever, no???

Sage

[imalright]

Sage,

I do believe that we have can get those doubts once in a while, normal recovery from what we go through. It sounds like things are back on the inswing. I hear that it gets better with time. And you are right we need to renew our DBing spirit and principles, we don't want to lose sight of them.

Let me say, that you are in a good place; your H is with you and you are rebuilding your M. Just remember that some of us would give anything to be where you are. So maybe it would help to know youe ARE in a good place, and I'm sure you would not trade that place for one of ours, LOL!

I'm so glad you continue to post here, and offer your advice to others, what a wonder woman! Most leave and move forward. Everytime one of you "wise" ones leave, I get withdrawal symptoms! I look around and wonder where everyone went!

Your post has to me has made me think that I need to come here and keep posting, even if it is not just about my H and I. Something to lift others up.

Thanks for dropping by!
Deb

[minnie1]

Hi Sage,

Your evening sounds decadent! Enjoy!

Thanks for helping me to get back on track.

Have a great weekend!
Minnie

[karen812]

Sage,
Hi. I have a couple questions for you. I feel like I may have brought enough pain onto myself to really change. I know it took a lot, and may be too late for my H, but hopefully not.

Do you hold yourself primarily responsible for the past probs in your M? Do you think you drove him away, caused him to treat you poorly/lie?

Also, did you get a lot from the book "Addicted to Unhappiness?"

I hope I'm not dredging up too much for you. If so, say so. I am just questioning if I really "deserve" the treatment that H has been giving me-withholding, lying about internet porn-saying that since he was unhappy he used it and since I didn't trust him anyway, he did it. And him not wanting to be around me/take me to the weekly festival where I had 2 jealous outbursts-one outrageous? Am I totally ignorant? Some of my friends, my sis, and even his mom think he is being mean, but they don't "see" what I do from behind closed doors. Sometimes I think H should be nicer and work with me to overcome my probs. He says that this is MY prob. and that he won't go to MC because it is all me. And, the C we did go to confirmed that as well, and told him not to reassure me.

Thanks for your time.
Karen

[sage]

Karen --
I'm glad you came by! I saw your post on your thread yesterday and have been wanting to respond...too much work to give it proper justice.

You're not dredging difficult stuff up for me but I really appreciate you wondering/worrying about that.

Do you hold yourself primarily responsible for the past probs in your M? Do you think you drove him away, caused him to treat you poorly/lie?

I hope this doesn't sound pat but I honestly hold myself 100% for my contribution to the problems in our M and 0% responsible for HIS contributions. that sounds a lot more definitive than it really is, doesn't it?

I've always been a self-critical person (ok, I've always been a critical person -- self and otherwise!) so even pre-bomb I felt like I took responsibility for my role, etc. What was missing, though (pre-bomb and pre-db) was the acceptance that MY way was in fact NOT the only way to do things and I completely missed the fact that I had hurt my h in a hundred small ways that had contributed to our issues. BUT, how he "manifested" his pain, hurt, whatever, was truly his responsibility.

I'm not explaining this well!

I guess my point is that there came a point while I was DB'ing where I could CLEARLY and HONESTLY see that while I wasn't responsible for h's a, or even for his lying (his response of choice), I had contributed significantly to his pain. Now, his pain relief of choice was his responsibility -- and it could have taken a number of forms -- LOTS of them more healthy than the ones he chose -- but the contribution to getting him to that point of pain was partly mine.

Divorce Remedy helped me get to the point of understanding how I had contributed because it forced me to really scrutinize h's complaints about our M and my actions that contributed to them. "Relationship Rescue", "Men are From Mars" and "Love is Letting Go of Fear" were also instrumental in my understanding some of the more subtle ways (well, subtle to me!) that I had hurt my h.

Also, did you get a lot from the book "Addicted to Unhappiness?"

I remember feeling positively about the book but I can't recall anything particularly concrete.

I hope I'm not dredging up too much for you. If so, say so. I am just questioning if I really "deserve" the treatment that H has been giving me-withholding, lying about internet porn-saying that since he was unhappy he used it and since I didn't trust him anyway, he did it. And him not wanting to be around me/take me to the weekly festival where I had 2 jealous outbursts-one outrageous? Am I totally ignorant? Some of my friends, my sis, and even his mom think he is being mean, but they don't "see" what I do from behind closed doors.

So...one of the things that I was going to post on your thread was that I was totally caught up in the trap of thinking that because OTHERS were "outraged" by some of the things that my h did (this was actually way before the A) that I must be RIGHT and he must be WRONG. I would frankly stop listening to what other people think...it's a real trap.

And then I would realize that it's not about DESERVE and it's not even about RIGHT and WRONG. Does your behavior justify his behavior. Does his behavior justify yours? Who the heck knows? But it SURE IS a cycle right now that one of you has the chance to break.

Sometimes I think H should be nicer and work with me to overcome my probs. He says that this is MY prob. and that he won't go to MC because it is all me. And, the C we did go to confirmed that as well, and told him not to reassure me.

I used to have a similar argument with h myself. Let me ask you this, Karen. Why would you expect h to be nicer and more reassuring to you than you are to yourself?

Here's what has worked for me....

I take 100% responsibility for working on my crap as often as I can...and, if in the process, h works on his crap too, well all the better.

Work on your trust issues and perhaps he'll work on lying. Either way...you come out the winner because you have addressed the only part you can control.

Another way to view it...I wasn't sure if my M was going to survive or not...but I had to work on the stuff I was bringing to the table because I can promise you that it gets carried with you regardless of the R you're in...I strongly suspect, Karen, that you'd find yourself with similar issues next time around...not because you "deserve" it but because you haven't decided to break the cycle.

Do absolutely everything you can to heal yourself and I think that h will do his own work too.

Sage