I can honestly say I have not been a friend of my H for a while.A friend is someone you can come to no matter what and right now I dont even know how to begin to do that.
I think the best I can do is not be an enemy right now.
But if I was to try to be his friend how would you start that after so long of not being anything to him.
Pen your more than welcome to visit my thread in midlife.I could use you point of view in this.Even if it is hard to do I need to see this from ow point of view.And you give me a window to peek into.
I'm having a hard time and all points of view are needed for me to find a way through this.
Later Friends. Love, Briget
It is a quiet night for me since my children are scattered to the wind tonight.So I'm going to reread DR from the beginning to the end.
The grass is always greener over the septic tank... Erma Bombeck
Treat hate with Love... DR. Martin Luther King
I have my own views on your question posed about being friends with your H as he submerges himself into his R with OW. I guess I want to play devil's advocate because I really think this topic infringes on one's personal boundaries.
Of course I say this with the caveat that every person should do what they feel is best. And that this is my opinion only.
I think being "friends" in this instance IS a safety net. I mean, who's the one who is in danger of falling--him or you? Not you...
Personally, I find it a bit hard to swallow being forced to be friends under these circumstances. I struggle with this issue myself, so this isn't a slam sent your way. I know that my religious teachings tell me to be a friend to someone I love, especially when they have hurt me.
Well, that's fine and dandy. I can be civil, cordial and polite. I can work on solutions for issues that are present. But I will be damned if we divorce if I'm going to include him in my social life. I would never choose to keep inviting someone in who isn't a real friend back to me.
To me the fact that he (whoever HE represents) would ask me to do that is a little incomprehensible. A real friend gives us the opportunity to work things out... not walk away. And then give us the honor of choosing to be "friends" to the best ability we can muster? Who is he kidding? And why? To assauge his guilt? To convince him that I'm not as hurt as he might have thought? To show him by my actions that things are okay because I can do it?
I don't think so.
I can forgive for the past and understand how we got where we are. But I think more of myself than to give my friendship to someone who will not reciprocate in the same manner as the rest of my true friends. I deserve friends who feel I'm lovable and kind and generous--with my time, talents and my heart. IF our XH/XW couldn't find those things endearing before they left, how are they going to find it true afterward?
With friends like them, who needs enemies?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hey Betsey... I don't take what you said as a slam at all.
In fact, I was posing the question as the devil's advocate myself... trying to see his point of view in case there is some legitimacy I'm missing here.
But you summed up my own feelings on the issue quite well.
I've been holding a lot of things up to the mirror lately to see whether I'm being reasonable, to poke the holes in my own cloth so to speak. My spiritual path also calls for open heartedness... I think I am learning how to reconcile the two things-- keeping my heart open and honoring my own personal boundaries.
You see, after being freaked out by H's demeanor (the one he's only used when he has tried to "come home" and is now using again while not saying anything of the sort), I went "back to basics" yesterday and did what used to work to create positive interactions for us.
I told him gently that I had been freaked out, that I knew I was only going to be reactive if I responded right away and so decided to hold off. I told him that in thinking about it I'd realized that I do not trust him to be my friend with OW in his life because he's time and time again shown me that when the choice is between treating me with respect, compassion, honesty, caring and chasing her approval, he chooses the latter and that the 2 things seem to usually be in conflict.
He asked to hear more. I am still deciding how much of this conversation to have.
So much for Wonder, International Girl of Mystery. But I think I've been needing to say this for a long time.
I don't think you should discard your International Woman of Mystery title yet. I think you still have some surprises up your sleeve--so don't be so quick!
I'm also struggling with this very issue right now. I've tried to come up with a reason as to why I think I'm being so reasonable, but I can only come up with one: things just aren't completely over.
But in my mind, there is only one thread that is holding this marriage together. In my mind, the rest is gone. Maybe this explains why I feel more detached than usual?
I've also noticed that the more indifferent I act, the more he seems to bounce back? The only difference between now and 9 months ago is that I'm really not caring. I was wondering when I'd get to this point, and it appears as though I've arrived.
I liken it to wanting a product that everyone else in my life seems to value. I save my pennies and the day approaches where reaching that goal is imminent: yet, for some reason, I examine my heart and really wonder if I want it for myself to begin with?
I know this is of no use to you, sweetie. I guess I just want to tell you to turn around. I'm sitting right behind you in this canoe?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Greetings... I've been lurking up until now because I *finally* finished reading this thread and the past 3 that were locked out! *whew*
Not to "get in the way" of your wonderful back-and-forth on books and such, but I just wanted to say that I've gotten so much out of your postings. Thank you. I see you all as quite strong and brave in many many ways.
I'm just beginning to confront my W about a SSM and my EA and a bunch of "stuff" (you know, the stuff of life). She has immersed herself into motherhood since D2 was born (didn't happen after D6 was born, only after D2). She knows about my EA and yet we've never dealt with it. I fear that she'll become a WAW, and I suppose that would be "the easy way out" to let her do it. Anyway, we'll see where it goes after I give her a letter (in the process of writing it) and Michele's SSM book to read.
I'm going to post on your thread, which I just read. But glad to hear our conversation is helping you. It's helping me too. Thanks for coming out of lurk mode.
Apart from „still having feelings for you“, „wanting absolution“ and „safety net in case things don’t work out with OW“ (which are probably all true) a fourth possibility for “wanting to stay friends” and not filing just occured to me – keeping OW in limbo. After all, what better way to keep her attentive and “on her toes” relationship-wise so to speak than to say “You know, I’ve just had a talk with my wife today. She still very much wants to make the marriage work. I can’t bear the idea of hurting her by filing right now – she couldn’t deal with it.”
If he were to actually file he would have to, heaven forbid, discuss commitment and marriage with OW – without the convenient “exit” back into his old marriage if things don’t go his way.
You raise a good point... I suspect my H's mind was working this way. He told me some of this, and told me lots about his own confusion. (He has moved out of OW place 4 times and has moved home twice.)
I don't want to take over the joint thread here... I've got my own... but do want to clarify. He did file and then decided divorce was the wrong thing for us (I almost did this too, so I can understand). He asked me to take him back, came up with a plan to live on his own for several months instead and get his head pulled together before coming home, to pay back OW the money he reportedly owes her, to build our R slowly. Things seemed to be going ok... slow, but good in many ways. He didn't make more than a week or two on his own before he started saying the living situation he was in wouldn't work.
Then he gave me D papers in March-- right around my birthday-- like my own little bomb #2. His reason? "I can't hold this over your head anymore." (funny, as far as I knew we were talking about him moving in this summer, not D).
This is why I don't get why he's acting the same way as before. Though I do feel like he was pushed a bit into giving me the papers; he'd just started C right around that time.
Betsey, sure am glad to know this canoe is large enough for more than one. I can use the paddling help!
Seems to me you're right about Mr. W having to come up with more than liking your car. But from the outsider's perspective, it seems he is s-l-o-w-l-y getting there, no?
It appears to me that he is making some glacial movements and your communication sounds great right now. Whether that's enough to keep you keeping on isn't for me to say, but seems like there is reciprocation at least on the friendship, appreciation of your hard-earned personal changes... these are positives.
Ok, Wonder – your specimen really sounds like he doesn’t know which side of the cube is up .... which is probably true for many.
Betsey, I hope you had a great weekend and fun with the new car – sorry I was so French about it, sometimes I just can’t help myself (I’m part French, and we are famous for our rudeness). *apologetic smile*
I actually went back this weekend and read many old threads, of yourself, of Wonder, and Briget, to name just a few, and I was struck by two things: how little the actual circumstances which have brought you here have changed, and how much you yourself have grown.
Which brings me to the following scenario: what if Mr W, for example, told you tomorrow that he wanted to come home (or ‘work on the marriage’, to make it sound not quite so frightening) and you discovered you’d outgrown him? You've never come right out and said so, as far as I can recall, but I imagine I see a fear of just that possibility haunting your posts at times.
So here’s my challenge for today: list any number of reasons why you want your WA back, as they are today. Not just Betsey, but anyone who wants to participate. I accept any reasonable explanation, except a) “because of the children” or b) "because of the great marriage we had in the past." I want to know why you as you are today want them as they are today to come home.
I think I'll just hang out in the canoe with you for awhile, Wonder. I don't mind rowing--it's good exercise and it keeps me from coming to any conclusions in my own life.
Granted, we've made significant progress in our discussions, but I want more? Does that sound unreasonable?
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey 
But from the outsider's perspective, it seems he is s-l-o-w-l-y getting there, no?