yes, I figured it was Angelman's, just like the little girl I'd described. She was most definately Elfish! The translucent, hypopigmented skin, the light hair and eyes, the general shape of the face, and most of all, that eeriely beautiful, otherworldly smile and the sudden bursts of laughter that could come out of nowhere; as if her mind had been romping through meadows and forests in her elven home, where suddenly something so wonderful had happened that she wanted to tell us earthdwellers all about it, but there were really no words to describe it, so she put it all into her smile. I doubt this is making any sense, but that is how I felt everytime I interacted with her, and I couldn't help but smile back. She understood much of what was said to her, even if she couldn't answer back verbally, and like your D7 she had many forms of non-verbal communication.
I loved working with each and everyone of those children, even the boy with Lesch-Nyhan's Syndrome - a malady that usually leads to autoaggression, but in his case was channeled into a tendency of looking around innocently, but then suddenly slapping people in the face as soon as they lowered their guard. Especially people with glasses only approached him at their peril. *grin*
You both seem like extraordinary parents to both your D's, and I'm sure there's a reason God chose you two as parents for D7. He simply knew you'd be wonderful to her (and vice versa). A really big GO YOU!!!!
I don't fully understand your sitch. could you give me a link or post it here or on my thread? I think I will have questions for you if you don't mind. Thank you,
Wow! I really thought we had nothing much to say about now, but I was drastically wrong! So wrong that I'm digging up stuff that needs to be processed and discarded as well.
Pam, I've been thinking about your posts hard and long today. Boy, did it resonate with me. Our similarities are so distinct. And so are the similarities in the men we married--with one exception: your H told you to get out, but mine retreated into the recesses of his mind and soul.
But the similarities seem eerie and make me feel as though I'm ready to address this stuff with Mr. Wonderful in the near future. I, too, perceive(d) him not to care about what I did or didn't do.
When OM came out for a visit, he smiled and said, "This means I can work more. Do you think he'd mind hanging out with you without me?"
Did he realize what I thought he was telling me? I don't give a rats ass if you sleep with him or not. Love him or not. Love me or not. Just leave me be.
Linda, I guess I'm going to concede game point to you on this. (Not that I couldn't think you were right about him feeling so much he acted like he didn't care... just that I really didn't believe it.)
I also know now what I needed to feel like there was something to build on: him expressing SOMETHING about what I was or wasn't doing. He certainly told me on his way out the door (and a few more times) that his reaction stunned him so much that it led him to believe that he didn't love me anymore.
For the first time, I think he felt SOOOOO much that he shut himself down completely to avoid feeling the pain. I've felt bits and pieces of this to be true all along, but not to the magnitude I feel right now. The alcohol, the holing up in the apartment and watching reruns of Law & Order, the mindless social activities with Gary (maybe I'm talking about Sponge Bob?), the seemingly constant conflict avoidance, the unwillingness to address the elephant that is sitting in our living room. They are ALL evidence pointing to this very truth.
The difference between me now and then is that I'm affirming myself and I have a great support group here to bounce ideas with and to keep me focused on what the core issues really are. Back then, I was blinded by pain and looking only for someone to lead me away from mayhem... like the Pied Piper. Well, didn't the rats all get led to the river and drown anyway?
Thank goodness we've seen the light and opted to better ourselves rather than bitter ourselves (great play on words, Pam).
Randy, the day I truly believed that D7 was a gift was the day I realized that I wanted what she had. That is, I realized that my little girl loves unconditionally and without strings attached. She's happy every day she wakes up. I sat in my lawn chair and decided I could TRY to be like her.
They are the teachers, friend. It is up to us to live the lessons for what they are.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Pam, seems there is a fair amount of book review disagreement on this thread, so I am going to add mine.
When I read this book, it struck me that it was taking valuable and complex ideas and oversimplifying them in a way that was pretty unsettling.
Sure, giving love is not about asking for something in return-- and a lot of unneeded pain in relationships can come from thinking otherwise.
We all have needs in relationships. Wholeness allows us to meet them in healthy ways and not hold it over our partners' heads that they are not meeting silent demands in return for "our love".
Sure, rejection and hurt feelings can often be mostly about US. But some rejection is real and legitimate. Committed Rs require agreed upon expectations on both sides-- expecting them to be met is healthy-- and feelings of rejection are a natural outgrowth of having that commitment abandoned by one party. Whether we identify with it or work through it is a choice.
Telling someone they have hurt you is necessary boundary setting, but repeatedly throwing your pain in someone's face can be controlling and manipulative and not loving. Not dealing with our hurt causes us to hurt others, plain and simple.
But feeling your broken heart isn't manipulative or about guilt--it's a very painful, intense, intimate and physically grueling personal feeling. In many cases, people keep the real bulk of those feelings very, very close to their vest-- for the most part, the partner who left never really sees or hears about the intensity of that pain.
BTW, Pam, I also wanted to echo what others have said about your earlier posts. They were incredibly thoughtful, well communicated and also--on a selfish note, personally helpful to me.
Thank you for being brave enough to put that stuff out here because it's clearly not easy and it's a gift you offer to many.
Pen, I'd suggest there are as many situations in which the LBS isn't equally ready to walk out the door, is genuinely surprised by revelations of unhappiness because it was not just left uncommunicated but because they were seeing actions that showed happiness and devotion.
So it wasn't shock that gives LBSs in this situation the impetus to address the issues-- it is the simple communication that these issues exist. I guess it's easier to suggest that we'll "never know" if the M could be saved, just like anything else, not trying is much less risky for the ego. (the old, I didn't try so I didn't really fail).
I'm not suggesting some LBS weren't ready to walk, just that I'd bet an equal percentage are the other way too.
I have already taken up way more than my alloted space, but all this talk makes me think I'd be most grateful for any opinions you ladies might offer on this:
My WAH--who is well described by what's been written here--is now making an unseen-to-date effort to do things we'd agreed to and is repeating the exact behavior patterns of his 4 previous reconnection attempts. Yet is still pursuing divorce and living with OW. What would you all make of this? Closure? Friendship? Reconnection? Just curious what "the other side" thinks.
Quote: For the first time, I think he felt SOOOOO much that he shut himself down completely to avoid feeling the pain. I've felt bits and pieces of this to be true all along, but not to the magnitude I feel right now. The alcohol, the holing up in the apartment and watching reruns of Law & Order, the mindless social activities with Gary (maybe I'm talking about Sponge Bob?), the seemingly constant conflict avoidance, the unwillingness to address the elephant that is sitting in our living room. They are ALL evidence pointing to this very truth.
Soooo, what to do about it?
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
p.s. to Pam... I know you are not one for hugs, but I'm going to give you one anyway-- ((((((((((PAM))))))))))
Why? Because you keep mentioning that you never meant to hurt anyone, that you had tunnel vision. You were hurting--and that is how you got there. Forgiving yourself for that is not easy, but I am sensing you're getting there. And that maybe the presence of that line in your posts is helping you get there?
Just a thought I wanted to share. No offense at all intended by this. Your posts are amazing me.
It's been a really long time since I've felt any discussion compelling enough to keep me from my work... but today is one of them!
HOn, I'm not sure what to do about it yet. I'll figure that out as I process some more.
I'm very grateful for all the input here. It's been most helpful today.
Wonder--Pam likes hugs! I send them her way all the time. And I'm sending one to everyone here today. Sounds like we all need one--this processing is hard stuff and emotionally charged.
Pen, can you prescribe something for all of us today? Drugs are our friends...
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Processing stuff is difficult... especially when you are very unsure of why you feel what you feel. This has been an emotional week for me, but all in a very good way. And I don't know why. Nothing with my M or H has changed, and yet, I feel settled, like there is a shift in the cosmos or something.
And yet, nothing from H.
I feel eerily like I am being PREPARED for something... yet, what?
Maybe it is all this open-ness that I am experiencing. I had about 10 ah ha moments trying to explain it to a friend.
What if GOD is even bigger than we give him credit for. What if all this new age spirituality that some Christians look down on, is just another way of God speaking to us?
Tuesday at a friend's funeral, I felt God tell me "It's okay."
Boy, am I rambling.... Gee, maybe I am ON drugs...
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I gotta admit I'm confused...what's the line between "trying not to control the behavior of another by acting mad about it" and "giving the impression that you don't care"? [Note: I'm exhausted today and my head's not completely in the game so there's a good chance I'm missing this point entirely... ]
Quote: But the similarities seem eerie and make me feel as though I'm ready to address this stuff with Mr. Wonderful in the near future. I, too, perceive(d) him not to care about what I did or didn't do.
When OM came out for a visit, he smiled and said, "This means I can work more. Do you think he'd mind hanging out with you without me?"
Did he realize what I thought he was telling me? I don't give a rats ass if you sleep with him or not. Love him or not. Love me or not. Just leave me be.
Let me frame it another way since there's history in the above quote that I'm sure I don't know about...
After h's EA the ONE BIG thing that hasn't changed is his privacy re. his e-mail accounts. I'll admit that early on post-EA I tried to make it a big deal ("I need you to be more open...") but since h recoils at any sign of my trying to control him AND since trust has been a big issue, I suck it up constantly and try NOT to feel freaked out about not truly knowing what's going on in that arena...
Is that a suggestion to him that I don't care in some fashion?
If h develops another close friendship with a woman aren't I supposed to ignore the feeling in the pit of my stomach and recognize that it could be my insecurities or trust issues or whatever and NOT make a big deal about it or is that some "message" to him that I don't care if he has another EA?
That thought is absolutely exhausting to me.
Anyway...on another topic...if you liked "The Four Agreements" let me also recommend "The Mastery of Love" by the same author (Ruiz).
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Okay, Sage, what's going on that has you worrying about this? I read your stuff regularly, and I'm going to ask what triggered you into this topic to the point of exhaustion?
I can only answer for myself here. If I were the person who was going to be interrogated (read: forced to hear about the fears from another person's perspective), I would wish for one simple thing.
For him/her to express themselves calmly and directly--using words that demonstrated caring but showed vulnerability. I think this is what Trish and everyone else was trying to tell me all along...
In the case of your e-mail issue, it would also have to be brought up in a moment of good timing (or at the very least, not poor timing) and only addressed once for the episode that triggered the insecurity. If it's a topic up for frequent discussion, it's a fear of the person that needs to be processed so it isn't projected on the spouse.
"Honey, while I don't want to read your e-mail messages or imply that I need that, something has happened that have given me pause to think. Since I'm a little confused and feeling a little insecure, I'd just like to share them with you so that I understand... "
Those sort of statements demonstrate you care a whole lot. But they aren't clingy or fearful or needy.
Caveat (Sage, I really don't think this applies to you, so ignore this): If this topic rears its ugly head more than a few isolated times, there IS a problem. I find that unless I deal with the insecurities that are making themselves known in spades, this issue will be addressed ad nauseum until I get there.
So before anyone dares to head here, I suggest they process and make sure that they are clear in what they are asking, what they are asking for, and to be content with whatever answers are provided--and not to be brought up again unless the spouse is consistent with pulling those triggers.
Now I just need to plan my own list of questions and find a time to sit down and chat with Mr. Wonderful.
Betsey
Last edited by Underdog; 06/24/0408:38 PM.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
They are ALL evidence pointing to this very truth.
Betsey 
Betsey 
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