I agree with your post. I GET why people have affairs. Because people are imperfect, and it is tempting. "Wrong, immoral" ... I'm not going to comment on that because morality is a complex issue. There are many levels of moral reasoning, and many ways to see life problems within those levels of reasoning. I do not want to get into it beyond there, it would be opening a Pandora's box that I have no interest in opening.
I will say this, the wrongest part about it, to me, is the lying.
If spouses had to do it OPENLY hardly anyone would do it!!! (I would be in a minority).
Think about it... if marriages had a 100% honesty policy, if you could not fathom having an A without sharing that with your spouse, the affair rate would be something like 5% instead of 80%. I think it's the wilingness to lie that is at the root of the problem.
I think when you lie to someone, you take away their free will. Because in order to decide how to operate their will, they must be able to perceive reality properly. Right? And what do lies do... they distort reality.
I get why A's happen. They are not good things, they cause pain, but I understand why they go on. I do not get the lying, though. I do not get why it goes on. Why would anyone would WANT to be with someone they could not speak openly to, or expect the truth from?
If you don't have at least that much, is there really anything?? And if there is, how do you know?... couldn't THAT just be a lie too? See what I mean?
Maybe it's not as important as I think, but I don't see how that could be.
Is the key to your situation in the opening part of your last note?
And if we solve a bunch of chronic little problems, and learn how to accept our personality differences, you're right... I would be happy.
So it almost sounds like it is as easy as: Can you accept each other's personality differences?
I know that his lack of outward action is a problem for you, what is his problem with you? He must have at least one issue with you. If he does, can you see his point? Can he see yours with the lack of action?
What was it that "won" you to him the first time? Can you remember? Does he still do that, or would you even want him to? Things change and people evolve, what was it that made him want you back then? Do you still have that, or does he even want it?
I understand about your worry of staying too long with no return on your investment. I don't know that I would put a timeline on it though. I would go with my gut as far as staying or going. I don't know that you can put a timeline on a realtionship, because it is often 3 steps forward and 2 steps back.
Why is it that you hang onto your OM so? It is seems obvious to both of us that he isn't going to leave his W, and is he REALLY all that? He may be good looking and passionate (there are a few of us out there), but doesn't really sound like someone you could depend on. Could it be that your H is waiting for you to figure this out on your own and make a decision? That is a pretty darn hard thing for a man to do, if that is true.
If you are going to "steal" a man, at least get the total package. Sorry to say that your OM doesn't really stack up to that from what you tell me. (here comes a rant) A real man wouldn't be afraid of your kids 13 years ago. A real man would've respected your decision to get married 13 years ago, and turned you down when you wanted to be his woman on the side. If he didn't do that, he would have at least been up front with you and told you that this was all about sex, and as soon as you made it something else, you would be done. Instead he is using your emotion against you to string you along until you want to be his side woman again. Why would you want to be anyones's 2nd choice? You don't sound like a woman who would settle for that. (end of rant)
I agree that you are not currently DBing, it just sounds like you are doing a bit of it in spite of yourself. When you decide to get serious, you will be a hard force to turn down!
My story....I was wondering when someone would ask that. Let's just say that I have led an eventful life. I think I am lucky that I was "woken up" by my last experience, and want to keep learning so that it doesn't happen again. It really kind of fascinates the hell out of me how two people interact in a relationship.
Do I still think about her? Yes, often. I guess I do write about it, a piece at a time as I relate to other people on this board.
You do have to do it when you are ready. The only risk you run is that when you are ready, maybe your H won't be, or worse he will be leaving.
Yes, H and I have talked about the need to accept our personality differences. We both agree that there is a limit to how much a couple can "do" to improve a M, and a lot of it just boils down to acceptance. We have quite a few differences, though!...
And the list goes on. We do have lots of things in common, too. I try to remind myself of that. We are both home bodies who don't like too much socializing, we both like the same level of involvement with family (moderate), we both have the same value for religion (none), we both like to think and talk and we "get" eachother's sense of humor. We have similar temperments as well... relaxed and kind of introverted. We both value honesty, our sex life was pretty great, we both love movies and reading and walking and backgammon, and the list goes on.
His problems with me? He thinks I am too sensitive and emotionally intense. My OM agrees... my OM told me that dealing with me is like handling plutonium. Pretty much sums it up. Really, I'm not that bad, but compared to my H, it's quite a contrast. My OM is a passionate Italian, so at least he can relate.
My H also thinks I am spoiled and can be selfish when pursuing my goals (guilty as charged). He thinks I'm irritable (true, but only around him), too driven (not at all, he's wrong about that, I'm lazy!) and demanding. Well, he says "demanding" like it's a bad thing. And, he thinks I just want what I want, not want it from HIM in particular. We go round and round about that... he thinks the stuff I want in an R is based on "preconceived notions" (which he thinks bad) and "does not arise in the context of him and me" (which he thinks would be okay). YEP, it's non-stop fun, being married to a therapist.
Yeah, he can see why I don't like his lack of action! He always says stuff like " I'm a lazy slug, I know, and I'm a weirdo, it can't be easy being married to me." He gets it.
"What was it that "won" you to him the first time?"
His attentiveness. Integrity and kindness. Intelligence. His good looks. And he was (and still kind of is) romantic. I liked that he was so solid and "together." And, I knew he would be an ideal step-dad. But MOSTLY, I fell I love with his stubborn refusal to give up on us, despite that we argued from the get go, and despite that I was in love with someone else (OM). What won me was his utter conviction that he wanted me, his lack of conflict or hesitancy about that... when a woman is confronted with an exceptional man who is truly in love with her and devoted to that, it is compelling. My H (like my OM) had women throwing themselves at him, but he only wanted me, and centered his life around that.
And yes, he still has/does many of these things, but in time the differences grow more maddening and exhausting and the good stuff waters down, I think because people get distracted from their spouse and their M... life intrudes.
What made him want me back then? Great question. He always says it's because I was not afraid to show my legs on our first date (I wore a mini skirt). Seriously, I think he liked my looks, and I have maintained that aspect of myself. I am 13 years younger than him. He has said that he liked that I was bright, and romantic, and a good mom. He told me that he found most women sexually lacking in some way, and was blown away with me that way. I have no idea why... I was a clueless 27 year old, he must have been with some real duds. He was really INTO sex back then... in a way that was always a little too cool and clinical for me, but at least there was keen interest. These days, sure he likes sex, but his edge is totally gone. I used to think, well, give the guy a break, he's 53! But my OM is 48, and OH MY GOD, he is hotter than a 22 year old... plus, it's not just the temperature difference... OM brings such sesuality and fun and spirit and creativity to that aspect of life... I mean, to an insane degree, and I LOVE that, and my H just isn't "cut out" for that. I have not even ML to my OM! (well, except for when I was single, 13 years ago) ... so, no ML, and yet this time around he has been the most incredible sexual experience of my life, bar none. It's SAD. Feel sorry for me.
Funny, because when I asked H what he wanted to change about our M if we reconciled, one of the things he said is "More sex." I was SHOCKED. I go "WHAT?!?!? I am the one who wants more sex!! If you want more, what aren't we HAVING more?" He says it's becuase I am not "easy enough to approach" because he thinks I am too irritable with him half the time and will turn him down. See, my H is kinda shy, he does not like to pursue, and I while I am not hesitant to pursue on occassion, pretty much I like to be the one being pursued sexually, so there is another problem.
My H definitely has a lot of qualities I perceive as typically "masculine," but he is also MISSING some rather essential qualities in that department, in my opinion, and that is starting to bother me more and more. I am a very feminine type and I seem to crave an opposite counterpart to that. And UNFORTUNATELY by OM would have to be my masculine ideal in every way. Uggh!
Do people talk about sex on this forum? Am I being inappropriate? I hope not. Too much information, probably.
Anyway, I think kind of saw me in need of "saving" and he liked that... I had two kids who had no dad around, and I was always kinda broke, and in love with a guy (OM) who had just divorced and was in Playboy mode.
Yes, I am still the same "package of stuff" he married. Except, I did decide I wanted a baby five years ago, which was NOT in the deal, and really stressed our marriage.
Something you hint at is true... that the very things people are attracted to about each other at the beginning are soemtimes the things that bug you later.
"I would go with my gut as far as staying or going. I don't know that you can put a timeline on a realtionship, because it is often 3 steps forward and 2 steps back."
SO TRUE!! Thank you for reminding me of that. I tend to have a "project" view of relationships, and I really need to remember that R's do not respond like projects.
"Why is it that you hang onto your OM so?"
Wow... I could list all the amazing things about him, and there are many, but of course he has faults, too. Why I hang on has to do with a level of what I can only call "naturally felt devotion" towards him...a kind of organic, unconditional feeling, that I have never felt for anyone else. I like that feeling, and I hang on because I do not want to be without the one who inspires it, I guess. When you feel that way about someone, it's like a relief, like OH! Okay NOW I get it, THIS IS IT, this is how love is supposed to be. And NO, it is not just because this is an A, because I felt that way for him thriteen years ago! I would kill to be the one to take care of OM when he is old and impotent and has Alzheimer's disease, need I say more? I love my H very much, but it is not in that fierce, super-devoted way. I can't explain it better than that.
H is the one who DESERVES that feeling, I know! And, I realize that feeling is part choice and decision, not just something spontaneously felt, and so I feel that is something I can open myself up to with H, if we can get some of the crap out of the way.
"It is seems obvious to both of us that he isn't going to leave his W"
He's not.
"A is he REALLY all that?"
To me, YES. I FULLY REALIZE if I ever actually got this guy in a real R, that I would be in for some rude awakenings... but you know, I think I would take them in stride. He inspires that attitude in me, wheras I cut my poor H no slack at all. It's awful. I have been more tolerant towards H since realizing this, and H says he notices it and likes it.
"He may be good looking"
You have no idea. This is part of the problem, guess I'm superficial. My H is a handsome man, but has let himself go weight wise. That bothers me. OM is 48 but looks 30. He trains with Navy Seals less than half his age, for "fun." When I met him 13 years ago I said to my girlfriend, "that is the most handsome man I ever saw in my life", and he still is. And proving that men do not always have affiars with younger women... his W is 6 years younger than me, and a doll.
"but doesn't really sound like someone you could depend on."
Well, no, because he's not mine! But, he is a dependable guy... he is a "grown up", if that's what you mean. He has a dynamite "on fire" career, and is responsible. His W "depends on" him. He has truly never cheated on her before me... I believe him, because he is so torn up about it, that he refused to ML with me in the beginning, when I wanted to. Who ever heard of an A where the man refuses ML when given the option? No, he is not perfectly moral (who is?) but he has integrity.
"Could it be that your H is waiting for you to figure this out on your own and make a decision?"
Exactly. Yeah. I thought you knew that. Pay attention, S!
"That is a pretty darn hard thing for a man to do, if that is true."
I know.
"A real man wouldn't be afraid of your kids 13 years ago."
I hear you. I always thought that was just a cop-out. But, he REALLY did not want children, he never had any of his own! I gotta give people credit, when they avoid parenting if they don't really want to parent. Too many people choose to do it, who are no good at it. But I agree, if he really had wanted me, he would have been a fool for love and tried to parent my kids despite his aversion to the idea. Love conquers all.
"A real man would've respected your decision to get married 13 years ago, and turned you down when you wanted to be his woman on the side."
Well, OM tried to ship me back to H many times over this past year! At first he was RUDE to me and informed me that he was married now (which I did not know) and that my flirtatious surprise e-mail after 13 years of silence was not welcome. I wrote back to sincerely apologize, and one thing led to another, as they say. Because of not wanting to hurt me, mostly, and because he feels guilty about his W, he has tried to end many times. I have been VERY persistent. TRUE, no one is holding a gun to his head, he could flat out refuse to have anything to do with me. The vast majority of married men would not take that stance, you know that, S. I worship him, don't forget. That's pretty compelling, even for a "real man." But, my H agrees with you on this one, and I admire your idealism and his.
By the way, I never wanted to be his "woman on the side." At first,I just wanted an e-mail flirtation. Very soon, my intentions grew potentially serious, and then serious. I never in a million years thouht that would happen. That was naive, I know.
"If he didn't do that, he would have at least been up front with you and told you that this was all about sex, and as soon as you made it something else, you would be done."
But, it was never all about sex. It has been very much an EA, and yes a PA, too at times, but no ML. Yes, for him I think it is mostly a lust thing although he denies that, it's clear to me. As soon as I "got serious" he DID freak and pull the plug, but it did not hold... I really don't think that's because he's not a "real man." I think it's because I am so irresistable. I'm kidding. I think it's because he's conflicted and not as strong as every married guy thinks they are going to be when this comes up.
"Instead he is using your emotion against you to string you along until you want to be his side woman again."
I doubt it. I think he knows that game is up. After all, I have not seen him in three and a half months, and have made it abundantly clear that my reason is because he is not willing to consider leaving W."
"Why would you want to be anyones's 2nd choice? You don't sound like a woman who would settle for that."
I DON'T want to be his 2nd choice. I WON'T settle for that. This is why I have been boycotting our little rendezvous. And I feel much better about myself since doing that! He says he misses me a lot, and thinks about me all the time, and he talks about "wishing" we could see eachother, but he is not pushing to see me at all, I think because he knows we have reached an IMPASSE.
"I agree that you are not currently DBing, it just sounds like you are doing a bit of it in spite of yourself."
Agreed.
"When you decide to get serious, you will be a hard force to turn down!"
Thanks for the encouragement!
"My story....I was wondering when someone would ask that. Let's just say that I have led an eventful life."
Uh... excuse me , but I think I speak for everyone on the forum when I say we would like a little more detail than that!
"I think I am lucky that I was "woken up" by my last experience, and want to keep learning so that it doesn't happen again."
Cool.
"It really kind of fascinates the hell out of me how two people interact in a relationship."
You'd have probably made a good therapist!
"Do I still think about her? Yes, often. I guess I do write about it, a piece at a time as I relate to other people on this board."
It is therapeutic, to get it out.
"You do have to do it when you are ready. The only risk you run is that when you are ready, maybe your H won't be, or worse he will be leaving."
I know!! It's not an ideal situation, at all! But like Stevie Wonder says, "You gots to work with what you gots to work with."
I don't want to point out your contradictions to you as I think it would be better if you could read through your most recent post paying special attention to what attracted you to each man. See if you notice how very contradictory they are.
I'll give you one small example
what you said about your husband
Quote: What won me was his utter conviction that he wanted me, his lack of conflict or hesitancy about that...
in regard to om
Quote: "It is seems obvious to both of us that he isn't going to leave his W"
He's not.
Quote: "but doesn't really sound like someone you could depend on."
Well, no, because he's not mine! But, he is a dependable guy... he is a "grown up", if that's what you mean. He has a dynamite "on fire" career, and is responsible. His W "depends on" him. if he's having an a behind her back how can she honestly depend on him, even if it's not behind her back...how can she depend on him. He has truly never cheated on her before me... I believe him, because he is so torn up about it, that he refused to ML with me in the beginning, when I wanted to. so the first time someone commits a crime they are exempt? Who ever heard of an A where the man refuses ML when given the option? If I am expected to believe my h in regard to his a there are at least two, your om and my h. actually not that it's relevant my h denies any pa at all. No, he is not perfectly moral (who is?) but he has integrity.
ok I'm going to be a real pain in the tucos right now...
Integrity 1 : firm adherence the simple fact that he's tormented by his actions doesn't count as he's still acting to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY if he had true integrity he would not have been persueded by your advances 2 : an unimpaired condition : SOUNDNESS 3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided I'd say if he's married to one woman but seeing another on the side he's neither complete nor undivided.
keep in mind I am NOT bashing you or judging you here (or om for that matter).
oh wait just incase you do miss it I will mention one other contradiction that screamed out to me...
re more sex with your h
Quote: See, my H is kinda shy, he does not like to pursue, and I while I am not hesitant to pursue on occassion, pretty much I like to be the one being pursued sexually, so there is another problem.
in regard to om you said
Quote: he has tried to end many times. I have been VERY persistent.
if this is only in the area of sex I appologize but it still says something to me.
It seems as if you are heavily pursuing OM and then sitting back and waiting for H to pursue YOU in this fashion. Almost as if you are wanting to recreate the scene from when you met, years ago. H strong and passionate with his love and unwavering with his desire to win you from OM. Are you hoping that this type of effort from H will inspire you to fall in love with him again, as it did when you first met?
Lack of passion between two people is no small thing so I am NOT making light of this at all or in any way putting you down.
My H and I have similar sexual dynamics as you do..both of us like to be pursued which leads to lots of stalemates. With lots of work, we are starting to make some real headway although there are more stops and starts than I could count.
One other question for you: What is it that you get from the relationship with OM? From where we are all sitting, it doesn't look like much. Here is a man who gets to fire off a couple of steamy emails a day to you which keep you hanging on and "worshipping" him and then he gets to go home to his life with his wife, where the REAL living starts!
What do you get out of it? I suppose I see this situation as one where you will not inspire the kind of passion that you want from your H (because you are not emotionally invested in the R and passion usually stems from some kind of emotional response) and so you will lose H. Then you will wake up one day and realize that you never really "had" OM and will give up on him finally.
Then you will be alone! I don't see what you have to gain in this situation and why it is worth it to you to risk it...? If you are not satisfied with the passion in your marriage, I understand that (btdt, in fact) but I can't see why you would stay in this situation where you are not really GETTING any passion, just a weak substitute.
Leaving aside what your H and OM's wife deserves, don't you think that YOU deserve better?
Quote: Then LL and Honeypot hit the bullseye anyway.
just want to clarify that my intentions are in no way to judge, make assumptions, label, attack, put down, insult (you get the point) in any way. My intention is soley to point out to you (annalise) what you already know and are telling us if we simply look past the gloss and find the contradictions you lay out for us to see.
whether you are doing it consiously or not you are doing it. I'd be willing to be you know you're doing it.
Wich of course leads me to the common question asked of most vistors on the edge of their m (deciding between staying or going, op or spouse) what is your intention in seeking advice (or just seeking a peek here) in other words wich way would you have us sway you? (disclaimer..yes I know full well that you will not be swayed or convinced in any direction you do not fully want yourself. the AHA moment isn't going to come from reading what any of us say it's going to come from you yourself and (uhm?) you)
LL who hopes she makes sense as she's in one of those moods again.
In regard to OM's dependability/integrity... you're absolutely right, he is not 100% either of those things. But, to me integrity and dependability is not a YES/NO issue. For example, I consider myself an honest person, I rarely if ever lie. But, of course I cannot say "I have never told a lie." Does that mean I'm not honest? I don't think so. Likewise I think my OM is a "good guy" with more integrity than most. He was faithful for 13 years to his W, and now just because in this one (admittedly major) area of his life, he is temporarily "divided" (without integrity) that suddenly means he lacks integrity as a person? I don't agree. MANY guys would have bedded me by now or tried to. MANY would have lied to me and falsely promised me they were going to leave their wives. REMEMBER, 80% of ALL marriages will eventually deal with infidelity at some point in their duration. SO, by your standard for "integrity" you are then saying that 80% of marriages contain one or two people who have none! That's a pretty outrageous standard... I think it's a matter of degrees, not at all a black and white thing. But we can disagree about that, I see your point.
About the contradictions... very interesting, you would make a good cognitive psychologist!
The first one you mention... about how I loved H's certainty about me, and how OM does not have that certainty. I don't really see that one as a contradiction... they are two different men... individuals, right?... so they each have different things I like and don't like.
The second one you mention IS a true contradiction... that I say I like to be pursued, and H tends not to do that, so I complain, but then I pursue OM, who does not pursue me. I am not saying this makes SENSE, but my FEELING about it is that (before the A) H had no reason not to pursue me (sexually)... no good excuse... I am his wife! (Not that he never he never pursued, just not as often or as "you know" as I would have liked). However, I have tolerated that OM does not pursue me, true... because of our situation. If OM pursued me, while not intending to leave his W, I would take offense at that. He would never do that... he is not some skirt chaser, and normally has no problem turning down female advances, of which he gets plenty. This was a very difficult situation for him (and me) to keep in perspective, because we knew each other thirteen years ago. Not an excuse, just the reality of the situation.
But yes, I do like a man who has conviction about me, and right now that is neither H nor OM, and DON'T THINK I haven't considered tossing BOTH of these faint-hearted bozos out of my life and starting fresh. That just seems a little extreme... like throwing the babieS out with the bathwater.
You guys are very insightful! I HAVE wondered if I am trying to "recreate" the same scene as when we first met. Jeeze... you guys have really followed my long and boring story well...thank you. That would be SAD, if I am trying to recreate that scene, because that means I felt I needed to do this A to make H return to his prior level of gusto/ involvement in the R. That could be partly true!
"Are you hoping that this type of effort from H will inspire you to fall in love with him again, as it did when you first met?"
Maybe... it would make reconciliation easier.
"Lack of passion between two people is no small thing so I am NOT making light of this at all or in any way putting you down."
Thank you... it's not that H and totally "lack" passion, I wish it were that simple, I'd probaly just leave! We had passion.. we had hot ML over the years... sometimes, incredibly hot ML...I always thought our sex life and emotional connection was one of our best things... and it's not that it "fizzled" ... it didn't much!... it's more like it was just always kind of lacking in just a couple ways that are quite important. And now, suddenly more important, since I have experienced with OM what those areas are like when they are not lacking. Don't mean to be vague, but this is a really personal topic, so that will have to do.
"My H and I have similar sexual dynamics as you do..both of us like to be pursued which leads to lots of stalemates."
Absolutely!
"With lots of work, we are starting to make some real headway although there are more stops and starts than I could count."
It is exhausting, and when I separated (informally) last year (and started what turned into an A) I was exhausted. I REALLY AND TRULY just wanted a frigging BREAK, not an "A."
"One other question for you: What is it that you get from the relationship with OM? From where we are all sitting, it doesn't look like much. Here is a man who gets to fire off a couple of steamy emails a day to you which keep you hanging on and "worshipping" him and then he gets to go home to his life with his wife, where the REAL living starts!"
This is a pretty accurate portrait of how things are NOW, true... because I recently (few months ago) decided not to meet or phone with him anymore, for reasons I've gone into in other posts. But, they are not just "steamy" e-mails. We talk about many things. You're right, I am not getting much from it, compared to a "real" relationship, but that does not make it easier to say goodbye to him forever...look at it this way... isn't there anyone in your life important to you who you don't keep in very good touch with? ... a relative or a friend, maybe? The fact that you do not have "much" with them in terms of daily living does not mean that they are not important to you, right? Well, suppose for some reason you could no longer see or talk to or contact that person in any way, from now on. You would probably feel a sense of LOSS, even despite that they were not "really" part of your life.
If I could keep OM as a friend, I would not be so twisted up about cutting things off!! I would be pretty OKAY with it, at this point! But unfortunately I cannot "handle" a plantonic friendship with him, we've already tried that. I always push it into "something more" and he cannot resist that.
So, when I cut off, it means I will probably never see or talk to him again, ever. Ever in my life!... And I am IN LOVE with this man, twice in my life now, and so that is a very hard break to make.
"What do you get out of it?"
Too much to go into! But not enough, of course! And certainly not enough to justify the sacrifice of this continuing, you're right.
"I suppose I see this situation as one where you will not inspire the kind of passion that you want from your H (because you are not emotionally invested in the R and passion usually stems from some kind of emotional response) and so you will lose H."
Well, H was lazy and oppositional to some of my needs even when I WAS devoted and 100% faithful and emotionally invested for 13 years. So it's not really true to say that my current state of heart is responsible for that problem. And remember, H had the most romance and conviction when I was in love with someone else thirteen years ago, so I really doubt that my "lack of response" would hold him back now, if he really wanted to save us. He's ambivalent, like me. We are leaning toward reconciling, but not there yet.
Yeah, I may loose him, you're right. My attitude may cause that. And his attitude may make him loose ME. But those possibilities do not seem critical right at the moment...we are still living together and comunicating well, and spending time together.
"Then you will wake up one day and realize that you never really "had" OM and will give up on him finally."
Oh, I know I never really had OM! I am already wide awake about that. If I am brutally honest with myself, I do admit that I am clinging to some hope, but it is not "rational" hope... I know we are a lost cause! The only hope I feel is more just a stubborn trace of hope left in my heart, NOT in my head.
"Then you will be alone!"
I do not want that. I love both men and so it is stupid not to "try" with the one of them that it is POSSIBLE to try with, my H. I know that. But, I am not panicked at the thought of being alone, if I/we blow it. It might be the best thing that ever happened to me. Being alone is not a permanent condition. Maybe eventually I would find some man who is H and OM all wrapped in one. It could happen!
"I don't see what you have to gain in this situation and why it is worth it to you to risk it...?"
That is EXACTLY what my OM has said to me several times! I mean, those EXACT words. I know. You are both right... it's no longer worth the risk... it WAS at one time, when I really thought OM might leave W. But now the risk is dumb, and that is why I have finally admitted it must stop. That is progress... all year long I would not admit that. So now, it is just a matter of saying the things I have left to say to him, and getting up the courage and strength to cut it off. I feel like I am moving in that direction, but if I rush it, like I tried to TWICE before, I will just end up re-contacting him, and I don't want that to happen a third time. Because, when you keep failing at something, failing at it becomes a habit.
I am not saying I want to wait until the break feels "easy" for me... that day will never come. But, it needs to feel a little more natural than it does now, otherwise I will just be setting myself up for failure.
Things need to run their course. I know that feelings can be somewhat "adjusted" by how I choose to THINK about this, and I am working on that, so that I can bring my feelings and behavior in alignment with my common sense. But by and large, I believe you can't rush your heart into a break-up any more than you can rush it into anything else. If you guys disagree with me on that, speak up! I would like to hear some other viewpoints on that, I am very open to the possibility that I may be wrong about that.
"You are not satisfied with the passion in your marriage, I understand that (btdt, in fact) but I can't see why you would stay in this situation where you are not really GETTING any passion, just a weak substitute."
Very good point! Is it sick to say that even this "weak substitute" from OM is more amazing than anything I ever experienced in a "real" relationship? It's true! But what you imply is correct... there's no sane way to keep that passion in my life, not with him...
Oh, he would let me be his life-long mistress if I wanted to, I am 99% sure of that, and I considered that... like Katherine Hepburn was Spencer Tracy's mistress for 25 years. Yes, I love this OM so much, I seriously considered that lifestyle! But I do not want that. It's not "me."
I think you guys may be a little under the impression that "passion" is my only M concern. Noooooo, there are others. And likewise, this involvement with OM is not just all about "passion."
"Leaving aside what your H and OM's wife deserves, don't you think that YOU deserve better?"
YES. Me and everyone on this forum deserves better than what we are getting from our current M or R's and I guess we are all working on that.
I know! I agree. See my posts to LL and Honeypot. You guys have all been supportive and yet pushed me to do some harder thinking.
If I stay offline awhile now, don't take offense or think that I was upset about something... not at all. It's just that this site is ADDICTIVE... Jeeze, I thought my A was addictive! No kidding, I am spending a lot of time reading and writing here, that I need to be spending studying, not to mention cleaning my kitchen... if the Health Dept. knew about the state of my kitchen, I think they would send someone to close it down.
And, he thinks I just want what I want, not want it from HIM in particular. We go round and round about that... he thinks the stuff I want in an R is based on "preconceived notions" (which he thinks bad) and "does not arise in the context of him and me" (which he thinks would be okay). YEP, it's non-stop fun, being married to a therapist. 