Yes, H and I have talked about the need to accept our personality differences. We both agree that there is a limit to how much a couple can "do" to improve a M, and a lot of it just boils down to acceptance. We have quite a few differences, though!...
And the list goes on. We do have lots of things in common, too. I try to remind myself of that. We are both home bodies who don't like too much socializing, we both like the same level of involvement with family (moderate), we both have the same value for religion (none), we both like to think and talk and we "get" eachother's sense of humor. We have similar temperments as well... relaxed and kind of introverted. We both value honesty, our sex life was pretty great, we both love movies and reading and walking and backgammon, and the list goes on.
His problems with me? He thinks I am too sensitive and emotionally intense. My OM agrees... my OM told me that dealing with me is like handling plutonium. Pretty much sums it up. Really, I'm not that bad, but compared to my H, it's quite a contrast. My OM is a passionate Italian, so at least he can relate.
My H also thinks I am spoiled and can be selfish when pursuing my goals (guilty as charged). He thinks I'm irritable (true, but only around him), too driven (not at all, he's wrong about that, I'm lazy!) and demanding. Well, he says "demanding" like it's a bad thing. And, he thinks I just want what I want, not want it from HIM in particular. We go round and round about that... he thinks the stuff I want in an R is based on "preconceived notions" (which he thinks bad) and "does not arise in the context of him and me" (which he thinks would be okay). YEP, it's non-stop fun, being married to a therapist.
Yeah, he can see why I don't like his lack of action! He always says stuff like " I'm a lazy slug, I know, and I'm a weirdo, it can't be easy being married to me." He gets it.
"What was it that "won" you to him the first time?"
His attentiveness. Integrity and kindness. Intelligence. His good looks. And he was (and still kind of is) romantic. I liked that he was so solid and "together." And, I knew he would be an ideal step-dad. But MOSTLY, I fell I love with his stubborn refusal to give up on us, despite that we argued from the get go, and despite that I was in love with someone else (OM). What won me was his utter conviction that he wanted me, his lack of conflict or hesitancy about that... when a woman is confronted with an exceptional man who is truly in love with her and devoted to that, it is compelling. My H (like my OM) had women throwing themselves at him, but he only wanted me, and centered his life around that.
And yes, he still has/does many of these things, but in time the differences grow more maddening and exhausting and the good stuff waters down, I think because people get distracted from their spouse and their M... life intrudes.
What made him want me back then? Great question. He always says it's because I was not afraid to show my legs on our first date (I wore a mini skirt). Seriously, I think he liked my looks, and I have maintained that aspect of myself. I am 13 years younger than him. He has said that he liked that I was bright, and romantic, and a good mom. He told me that he found most women sexually lacking in some way, and was blown away with me that way. I have no idea why... I was a clueless 27 year old, he must have been with some real duds. He was really INTO sex back then... in a way that was always a little too cool and clinical for me, but at least there was keen interest. These days, sure he likes sex, but his edge is totally gone. I used to think, well, give the guy a break, he's 53! But my OM is 48, and OH MY GOD, he is hotter than a 22 year old... plus, it's not just the temperature difference... OM brings such sesuality and fun and spirit and creativity to that aspect of life... I mean, to an insane degree, and I LOVE that, and my H just isn't "cut out" for that. I have not even ML to my OM! (well, except for when I was single, 13 years ago) ... so, no ML, and yet this time around he has been the most incredible sexual experience of my life, bar none. It's SAD. Feel sorry for me.
Funny, because when I asked H what he wanted to change about our M if we reconciled, one of the things he said is "More sex." I was SHOCKED. I go "WHAT?!?!? I am the one who wants more sex!! If you want more, what aren't we HAVING more?" He says it's becuase I am not "easy enough to approach" because he thinks I am too irritable with him half the time and will turn him down. See, my H is kinda shy, he does not like to pursue, and I while I am not hesitant to pursue on occassion, pretty much I like to be the one being pursued sexually, so there is another problem.
My H definitely has a lot of qualities I perceive as typically "masculine," but he is also MISSING some rather essential qualities in that department, in my opinion, and that is starting to bother me more and more. I am a very feminine type and I seem to crave an opposite counterpart to that. And UNFORTUNATELY by OM would have to be my masculine ideal in every way. Uggh!
Do people talk about sex on this forum? Am I being inappropriate? I hope not. Too much information, probably.
Anyway, I think kind of saw me in need of "saving" and he liked that... I had two kids who had no dad around, and I was always kinda broke, and in love with a guy (OM) who had just divorced and was in Playboy mode.
Yes, I am still the same "package of stuff" he married. Except, I did decide I wanted a baby five years ago, which was NOT in the deal, and really stressed our marriage.
Something you hint at is true... that the very things people are attracted to about each other at the beginning are soemtimes the things that bug you later.
"I would go with my gut as far as staying or going. I don't know that you can put a timeline on a realtionship, because it is often 3 steps forward and 2 steps back."
SO TRUE!! Thank you for reminding me of that. I tend to have a "project" view of relationships, and I really need to remember that R's do not respond like projects.
"Why is it that you hang onto your OM so?"
Wow... I could list all the amazing things about him, and there are many, but of course he has faults, too. Why I hang on has to do with a level of what I can only call "naturally felt devotion" towards him...a kind of organic, unconditional feeling, that I have never felt for anyone else. I like that feeling, and I hang on because I do not want to be without the one who inspires it, I guess. When you feel that way about someone, it's like a relief, like OH! Okay NOW I get it, THIS IS IT, this is how love is supposed to be. And NO, it is not just because this is an A, because I felt that way for him thriteen years ago! I would kill to be the one to take care of OM when he is old and impotent and has Alzheimer's disease, need I say more? I love my H very much, but it is not in that fierce, super-devoted way. I can't explain it better than that.
H is the one who DESERVES that feeling, I know! And, I realize that feeling is part choice and decision, not just something spontaneously felt, and so I feel that is something I can open myself up to with H, if we can get some of the crap out of the way.
"It is seems obvious to both of us that he isn't going to leave his W"
He's not.
"A is he REALLY all that?"
To me, YES. I FULLY REALIZE if I ever actually got this guy in a real R, that I would be in for some rude awakenings... but you know, I think I would take them in stride. He inspires that attitude in me, wheras I cut my poor H no slack at all. It's awful. I have been more tolerant towards H since realizing this, and H says he notices it and likes it.
"He may be good looking"
You have no idea. This is part of the problem, guess I'm superficial. My H is a handsome man, but has let himself go weight wise. That bothers me. OM is 48 but looks 30. He trains with Navy Seals less than half his age, for "fun." When I met him 13 years ago I said to my girlfriend, "that is the most handsome man I ever saw in my life", and he still is. And proving that men do not always have affiars with younger women... his W is 6 years younger than me, and a doll.
"but doesn't really sound like someone you could depend on."
Well, no, because he's not mine! But, he is a dependable guy... he is a "grown up", if that's what you mean. He has a dynamite "on fire" career, and is responsible. His W "depends on" him. He has truly never cheated on her before me... I believe him, because he is so torn up about it, that he refused to ML with me in the beginning, when I wanted to. Who ever heard of an A where the man refuses ML when given the option? No, he is not perfectly moral (who is?) but he has integrity.
"Could it be that your H is waiting for you to figure this out on your own and make a decision?"
Exactly. Yeah. I thought you knew that. Pay attention, S!
"That is a pretty darn hard thing for a man to do, if that is true."
I know.
"A real man wouldn't be afraid of your kids 13 years ago."
I hear you. I always thought that was just a cop-out. But, he REALLY did not want children, he never had any of his own! I gotta give people credit, when they avoid parenting if they don't really want to parent. Too many people choose to do it, who are no good at it. But I agree, if he really had wanted me, he would have been a fool for love and tried to parent my kids despite his aversion to the idea. Love conquers all.
"A real man would've respected your decision to get married 13 years ago, and turned you down when you wanted to be his woman on the side."
Well, OM tried to ship me back to H many times over this past year! At first he was RUDE to me and informed me that he was married now (which I did not know) and that my flirtatious surprise e-mail after 13 years of silence was not welcome. I wrote back to sincerely apologize, and one thing led to another, as they say. Because of not wanting to hurt me, mostly, and because he feels guilty about his W, he has tried to end many times. I have been VERY persistent. TRUE, no one is holding a gun to his head, he could flat out refuse to have anything to do with me. The vast majority of married men would not take that stance, you know that, S. I worship him, don't forget. That's pretty compelling, even for a "real man." But, my H agrees with you on this one, and I admire your idealism and his.
By the way, I never wanted to be his "woman on the side." At first,I just wanted an e-mail flirtation. Very soon, my intentions grew potentially serious, and then serious. I never in a million years thouht that would happen. That was naive, I know.
"If he didn't do that, he would have at least been up front with you and told you that this was all about sex, and as soon as you made it something else, you would be done."
But, it was never all about sex. It has been very much an EA, and yes a PA, too at times, but no ML. Yes, for him I think it is mostly a lust thing although he denies that, it's clear to me. As soon as I "got serious" he DID freak and pull the plug, but it did not hold... I really don't think that's because he's not a "real man." I think it's because I am so irresistable. I'm kidding. I think it's because he's conflicted and not as strong as every married guy thinks they are going to be when this comes up.
"Instead he is using your emotion against you to string you along until you want to be his side woman again."
I doubt it. I think he knows that game is up. After all, I have not seen him in three and a half months, and have made it abundantly clear that my reason is because he is not willing to consider leaving W."
"Why would you want to be anyones's 2nd choice? You don't sound like a woman who would settle for that."
I DON'T want to be his 2nd choice. I WON'T settle for that. This is why I have been boycotting our little rendezvous. And I feel much better about myself since doing that! He says he misses me a lot, and thinks about me all the time, and he talks about "wishing" we could see eachother, but he is not pushing to see me at all, I think because he knows we have reached an IMPASSE.
"I agree that you are not currently DBing, it just sounds like you are doing a bit of it in spite of yourself."
Agreed.
"When you decide to get serious, you will be a hard force to turn down!"
Thanks for the encouragement!
"My story....I was wondering when someone would ask that. Let's just say that I have led an eventful life."
Uh... excuse me , but I think I speak for everyone on the forum when I say we would like a little more detail than that!
"I think I am lucky that I was "woken up" by my last experience, and want to keep learning so that it doesn't happen again."
Cool.
"It really kind of fascinates the hell out of me how two people interact in a relationship."
You'd have probably made a good therapist!
"Do I still think about her? Yes, often. I guess I do write about it, a piece at a time as I relate to other people on this board."
It is therapeutic, to get it out.
"You do have to do it when you are ready. The only risk you run is that when you are ready, maybe your H won't be, or worse he will be leaving."
I know!! It's not an ideal situation, at all! But like Stevie Wonder says, "You gots to work with what you gots to work with."
And, he thinks I just want what I want, not want it from HIM in particular. We go round and round about that... he thinks the stuff I want in an R is based on "preconceived notions" (which he thinks bad) and "does not arise in the context of him and me" (which he thinks would be okay). YEP, it's non-stop fun, being married to a therapist. 