Gak, there’s so much on my last thread that I wanted to respond to -- from H2H, GBO, Maya, NSN, Jenhoco, TomServo, Totally, Rae Jean, Ron, Randy, DFB, and Sun -- it seems sometimes a shame when a thread closes when a lot happens at once and you all have given me so much to think about. I’m going to go back today and read through it again, but I’ll start some response here.
NSN (No Stiff Necks)
Quote: Azure, this is definitely great progress. Of course, he has not given you more than "not happy," which still makes it more difficult. We want to know why, specifics. I believe that they don't have the answers themselves right now, cannot articulate them, or don't have the strength or courage to face whatever is going on deep down inside of them. I'm happy that you're seeing this progress from him b/c it is a start to healing. A lot of our spouses are not there yet. We hope they will get there - and get there soon. But, as everyone has said, it is their journey and they need to figure it out themselves, as hard as that may be for us.
Yes, NSN, this process is so much about patience. ARGH! It is really difficult not to point out what I think his problems and issues are. I get frustrated with his slow progress. It’s interesting, though, to keep in mind what I read recently in the Harriet Lerner book, Fear and Other Uninvited Guests -- something to the effect that when you find yourself “overfocusing” on someone else, it’s a sign of your own anxiety. (She doesn’t say this judgmentally). So lately I have to stop myself at times from overfocusing on H and (in my mind) solving his problems for him. As you said, they have to figure it out for themselves.s
GBO (Gonna Be OK)
Quote: I do believe that wisdom moves in the context of community. I'm glad too our paths have crossed too! A funny thing that in this misery I have found a group of folks from whom I am learning so much. I even believe that someday I will look back and see this time as good ?!? in some profound ways that overmatch the pain....someday.
GBO, that is a wonderful way to express that thought (love that turn of phrase about wisdom moving in context of community). In my good times, I am certain that I will look back and see this as good--thanks in very large, grateful part to what I’ve learned here. {Too bad I can't permanently dwell in that enlightened space - as you all have seen }
H2H (Heart2Heart)
Quote: And I'll be honest, my purpose for continuing to be the "See, the glass is half full" person here on your thread was to give you a nudge - a slight nudge into thinking further through this questions of What Now? I know you're a thinker (takes one to know one! ) and I just had a feeling that you needed to move a bit beyond the stuck place you were at.
So, now I see you courageously taking a new step, a new direction. And I like it. Your emails seem to be a good medium to communicate in - and I can't say if it's good DB'ing or not, but I'd probably 'ask' the same questions you did, and like you did, in a 'forum' that is easier to talk through this in.
I also liked the analogy - I know that my SO would much more understand a 'work' analogy than a R analogy.
I'm waiting right next to you to see his response. Remember it was him that opened this discussion by 'stepping out on a limb' - IMO it was an opening for a bit further discussion, though I don't have to remind you to take it only so far. Our guys need to 'rest & recover' after one of these types of talks!
Overall, I think you're doing just fine... by doing this you have let go of some of that fear.
H2H, you have no idea how much I appreciate your nudges, honesty, suggestions, and reminders about the half-full glass (and all contained within beautiful writing, which the English major in me appreciates.) Please keep me on track, here.
Randy , thanks for following me over here! The hard thing is for us to move forward without having any idea where it will lead.
Ron , I have been thinking about what you said about men and women in disagreement, and I would welcome any further thoughts you have. Thanks for all the encouragement. And I'm glad you liked the work metaphor!
Wanted to paste this over from GBO for me to think about:
Quote: Well, since you asked—
As an observer I think it’s great that he took responsibility for the noncommunication and the shock--he said it straight out, you are right and he was wrong for that. He acknowledges feeling guilty—no doubt this is responsible for untold amounts of alien behavior. He asks forgiveness. This is such a good start! So really, this is good if you want a friendship or closure or anything with him at all. A line of communication has been opened with a man who was really, really uncommunicative to the point of dropping the ultimate bomb on his unsuspecting wife.
On the other hand, as you note, he still doesn’t give you that deeper explanation. It does sound like your angry reaction made him miserable and clam up on that stuff—not surprising, nor was your anger unreasonable under the circumstances—oh boy do I know that sitch……….. and I would wonder if he even has an answer for himself about his discontent and what he wants.
I do know that my real DB’ing (even before I read the book or BB) started the day H told me about OW but more importantly explained some deep resentments and put them in terms of feelings for the first time in my life….he cried and I sat there in shock as the realization came over me in waves….this is how he was feeling all this time. I had always heard it as hostility before. Empathy started there.
I’m sorry if this hurts to raise it, but it’s so interesting to me that your H doesn’t see right now the possibility of healing between you that would lead to more than friends……even though you have barely begun this conversation. He is obviously in great guilt and (like my H I’m sure) feels the pain of that just to be around you. Now maybe he would never get there, or get to the point of being conscious enough to be there, and maybe you would be long gone, but this convo seems more like a starting point for something. Or at least, a better ending. Whatever you can handle is the important Q—I liked your 50-50 analogy—but empathy is always good if we can manage it. And leads to some amazing tranformations too.
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