I can't even read posts in SSM anymore as it further depresses me. Some of those folks have an outside chance in hell, because their spouses are making some attempt. There were times when your H did make some effort and it has stopped again. I know how hard this is on you, I've lived with the rejection and pain and know how it makes one feel.
Marriage still takes two and you can only beat your head against the wall for so long before you stop.
Hugs,
JoJo
JoJo,
All I'm looking for from h is some constancy and not a rigid boring, we do x on z night and y on q night. I'm simply looking for some regular time for US. Though h is capable of giving himself to the r when he's got the time, that just doesn't work because who knows when he'll have time. Could be once this month and not again for two months or a week or whenever. I'm not talking about anything big either, I'm simply talking about spending 15 min or so just talking and even that doesn't happen with any regularity. Am I so much of a brat that I shouldn't ask for at least that from my h? I'm not asking to go out dancing or for dinner weekly or that he stay up all night with me wathcing the stars and pondering the existance of et's. I'm simply asking for a little bit of time to foster a connection between the two of us that goes a bit beyond the house, the laundry etc.
I think h hears me but doesn't know what to say so either expreses his frustration over the sit wich comes off as an attack at me or he doesn't say anything at all wich in turn comes off as his just not caring.
I at times think that h just doesn't understand how easy it could be.
It is not a new issue it is simply one that has never been resolved no matter how many times it's brought to the table.
Of course now add onto that old still present issue the fact that somehow (even if only for brief lunch "dates") he was able and willing to make the time for ow. Why do I not deserve the same? I know it's more difficult because we are not 5 min away but I'd be willing to drive down and meet him at a park for lunch with the kids.
Of course h doesn't see that what this woman was looking for from him (and getting) is not much more than I would like...and heck don't I deserve it? doesn't he deserve it?
h speaks of wanting to come home to peace and feeling tension. I have and had expressed that tension would dimminish if I knew when the hell we would spend our time together. If I get busy doing my own thing while he's busy not having the time or energy for us I'm not likely to continue dropping it when he's suddenly ready (the ole too little too late concept I guess) So the tension exist because I can't say to myself ok he's tired tonight but I know that on x night we will chat because x night may be a month or so away. Having a night means that both h and I can happily do our own thing knowing we'll get together then...wich of course reminds me of that song...you know the one..."you know we'll have a good time then" but when the father suddenly has time his son is off living his own life and to busy.
had another argument last night. He asked what was bothering me and I told him.
Quote: h speaks of wanting to come home to peace and feeling tension. I have and had expressed that tension would dimminish if I knew when the hell we would spend our time together. If I get busy doing my own thing while he's busy not having the time or energy for us I'm not likely to continue dropping it when he's suddenly ready (the ole too little too late concept I guess) So the tension exist because I can't say to myself ok he's tired tonight but I know that on x night we will chat because x night may be a month or so away. Having a night means that both h and I can happily do our own thing knowing we'll get together then...wich of course reminds me of that song...you know the one..."you know we'll have a good time then" but when the father suddenly has time his son is off living his own life and to busy.
LL -- kind of hitting and running so I hope this doesn't seem abrupt...IMHO, you're describing a classic "cycle" -- you're saying that the tension will go away when he makes some changes (to spend more time with you) and he's (sort of) saying that he'll make some changes (spend more time with you) when the tension goes away...
What would it take for you to release the tension w/o some guarantees from him? What if one of you were to take the giant step forward?
and, so long as I've put it out there already...my personal opinion (and two cents) is that h reacts to you "doing your own thing" positively (by making an effort) NOT because he wants what he can't have, he's afraid of losing you, etc. BUT because while you're "busy doing your own thing" the tension goes away.
Now...what would it take for you to "do your own thing" without it having the overlay of resentment and a bit of "so there"?
Could you drop the expecations for h without mixing in a hearty dose of anger?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Wow. It sounds so easy, doesn't it? Don't they realize what a great amount of, for lack of a better word, progress could be made by something as simple as turning off the TV, sitting on the couch with arms around each other and talking.
The kids were in bed early last night. We sat alone in the living room and I read my book, and he watched some stupid (my opinion) show on TV. Nice, but it could have been much more. If I would have made any kind of move, I fear I would have been shut down. Over at SSM, it seems like all I would have had to do was lay there seductively sprawled on the couch in my black nightie and wait for my normally HD H to get the hint. I'd trade this for that any day. Someone there is suffering from lack of intamacy and is contemplating an affair to solve their problems. Not realizing what torment that can cause and such far reaching consequences.
We know better, now, don't we? Although a good old fashioned roll in the hay could do a lot for my ego right now! Tall, dark, handsome, hung like a ....OK, I'm getting carried away.
I'm thinking of you
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Quote: LL -- kind of hitting and running so I hope this doesn't seem abrupt...IMHO, you're describing a classic "cycle" -- you're saying that the tension will go away when he makes some changes (to spend more time with you) and he's (sort of) saying that he'll make some changes (spend more time with you) when the tension goes away... I know I usually have some snippy answer for everything but. He is not saying that..what he's saying is he just wants to come home to peace. Even when that peace is here...he's happy and content, relaxed enough to go up to bed at 8 instead of falling asleep on the couch in some attempt to keep me happy. When in reality if he chose just one night to stay awake for a bit..the rest of them he could go to sleep in the bed rather than on the couch.
What would it take for you to release the tension w/o some guarantees from him? uhm? my initial thought was not one I should type here...but it may involve batteries. What if one of you were to take the giant step forward? I've been taking steps and getting no where.
and, so long as I've put it out there already...my personal opinion (and two cents) is that h reacts to you "doing your own thing" positively (by making an effort) NOT because he wants what he can't have, he's afraid of losing you, etc. BUT because while you're "busy doing your own thing" the tension goes away.
I think it's more of a he suddenly had a bit of free time so was present and not a reaction at all to me as there have been plenty of times when I'm here doing my own thing expecting nothing from him and getting nothing from him..it's not until there's some kind of argument (that usually centers around this area) that things change a little bit.
Now...what would it take for you to "do your own thing" without it having the overlay of resentment and a bit of "so there"? it would never be a so there, I meant that eventualy I may STAY busy doing my own thing and not drop it just because he suddenly has the time for me.
Could you drop the expecations for h without mixing in a hearty dose of anger? is resentment the same as anger? is hurt and desperation the same as anger? becasue though anger is what you hear angry is not what I am.
Sage
as always I thank you for your advice it does make sense but doesn't work in this r...trust me no matter how many leaps I take my h will never even make half the effort yours does...imagine that now? feel the way you feel now but get less than a quarter of what your getting? how would you feel?
Quote: Wow. It sounds so easy, doesn't it? Don't they realize what a great amount of, for lack of a better word, progress could be made by something as simple as turning off the TV, sitting on the couch with arms around each other and talking.
it is easy. but then don't you suppose the same statment could be made by them about us?
Don't they realize what a great amount of, for lack of a better word, progress could be made by something as simple as going off and doing their own thing and leaving us alone?
what's interesting is that though it would tend to make sense in a perfect world that if I just went about my business and kept myself happy h would then be more relaxed and find a way to share some time with me...it doesn't work that way.
Instead it seems to be that when I go about my business and keep myself happy h is happy and relieved that I'm happy and all pressure is off of him to spend time with me to "make me happy".
It is not until an outing of my feelings (usually at this point only when a conversation is initiated by him or instigated by an argument over another issue that I express a concern over the lack of "connecting" time spent together) that then leads to a bit of eggshell walking by both of us wich usually includes a bit more attention from h but once that new "tension" is gone...back to distant he goes and therefore I go. One could recommend that I don't distance myself simply because he has but it's hard to not be distant toward someone who's manner of being distant is to fall asleep...I mean what more than putting a blanket on them or waking them off the couch to walk up to bed can one not be distant?
Point is I don't want to keep having fights that lead to EACH of us saying things that the other doesn't want to hear or that may be masked frustration that only serves to hurt the other (that coming mostly from h) to get to a place where h make the little effort to be "present".
ie. big fight last night....and now h is saying (after calling refering to an im I sent about the washer being fixed) that he's trying to reschedule an appoint to an earlier time to get home earlier and maybe even be a bit more awake.
LL, I know that you are hungry for time alone with H.
Does it matter to you who makes the initial "time alone" move? That is, if you scheduled it, would it somehow take away from the specialness of it?
What I am suggesting is to tell him that if he is not going to make time for it to happen, that you will arrange it. He can either show up or not. You can make the lunch date at the park and he can either show or blow it off. You can arrange a sitter for Sat night and plan a movie date..he can come or not.
Perhaps after seeing you go on with plans with or without him, he would get the drift that you do not intend to either wait for him to make time, or wait AROUND for him while he remains busy.
Whatcha think?
I also think that it would have to be a blitz type scenario. Where you plan a lunch date, he blows it off, you say "whatever, your loss". Then plan the movie night that weekend, let him make his decision, again with the whatever attitude. Then the next week plan on playing a quick game of cards after the kids go to bed. He can participate or not.
I think he both likes and resents the fact that he is in charge of "making time". He likes the control it affords him, but he also resents having to plan his free time out to include Wife Time. I don't know that my suggestion will work, but I told ya I was relentless and I was not going to give up on my sister in suffering.
Quote: but WOULD you have put up with "this kind of rudeness forever?" and what makes you think that "this kind of rudeness" wont still be present if you reconcille and perhaps the only change will be that you no longer make such comments.
LL
I don't know what I would have done about his rudeness if he hadn't walked (perhaps just periodically blown up like I used to), but I did try a number of times to sit down and talk to him about the things that weren't right from my POV, in the way we were relating.
He always replied with things like "What do you want me to say?", or said nothing at all. Then carried on doing the same things.
Now that he has walked, I am honestly thinking, in between wanting him back, that perhaps if H can 'never' change (that's what HE himself thinks) then it is a blessing in disguise. I *want* TO CHANGE, I know I can change, or at least work on it, I am not interested in being stuck in the same place forever. No sir!
But from what I can tell, H's big changes are to go looking for a more 'compatable' woman out there, that he didn't find in me. Perhaps someone who can tolerate unprovoked blinding rudeness?? Hmmmmm. Good luck to her, is all I can say.
Livnlearn ,
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Hi Ladies- My H and I went to a counselor early on in all this mess. He also saw the C alone. When she asked him why the next R with the OW would be any different from the one with me, he told her it was because they had both learned from their mistakes and would make more time for each other and the R and the kids (meaning, I guess HER kids), and not work so much, and take family vacations. The C told me this at a later session (which I'm not sure she should have, but I'm glad she did), I about lost it. How can he be willing to make such drastic changes for her and can't salvage what we have together and do the same at home? OW's been married twice before, so she's done a LOT of learning from mistakes, evidently.
Now, here we are. He says that he and the OW are just friends, which I think would be impossible. He has not made any positive changes at home. He is not going with us on our visit to his parents home. He is not going with me to my family reunion. He's not rude, well..sometimes, but he doesn't talk much in general. Last night I was trying to get 3 kids to bed and from his chair in the lr he asked if he could do anything to help. Yeah, get up off your butt and help me get these blasted kids to bed! was what I wanted to say, instead I asked if he could help with D5 (who was having a hard time getting up off the floor and out of the puddle of tears she was crying because no one loves her) while I worked on D7 and D2. He did not move.
I'm venting agan. Sorry.
LL, do you have any plans to take the kids on vacation, or away for the weekend? I'm finding it hard to leave because I keep worrying what he will do while I'm gone. Then I think that he will probably find a way to do it while I'm here, so it shouldn't matter. But I sure don't want to make it easy for him.
I trying to think about what's missing. You mentioned not wanting to seem like a brat. I think I want to be spoiled, in a good way. In the beginning, there are flowers, words of love, long talks on the phone, jewelry, holding hands. H thinks that I pulled away from him, but I think that slowly, that stuff started going away when, as life goes, other things start taking priority. I still want those things. So he thinks its about sex and how infrequently we had it, I think if he took the time to talk to me a little more, we'd be having sex more often. No one wants to ML to a person who comes to bed after you've wrestled 3 kids into their beds without help and asks if you're feeling frisky!
Is this off the subject? Sorry again, but I think it's all part of the same big picture. Maybe we all change for a little while when we're "courting", but we fall into "normal" routines and then we're all left feeling like we've been bamboozled, tricked. I want to feel adored again. Remember that feeling? Beautiful, smart, funny. I can feel that with my friends, heck, their husbands like me. So I can't be all that bad. And you're great too, I can just tell. Take care.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Hmmmmm. 
Good luck to her, is all I can say.