Wildebube, I never said that there weren't REASONS for a woman's change, I only said I could empathize with someone like CeMar that it can make you sad, angry, confused and frustrated.
Speaking for my own situation, I believe that my wife is an honorable woman, and didn't set out to intentionally BECOME low-desire or no-desire, just for some sadistic kick to make me sad. But I AM saying (and I think CeMar is too, but he can speak for himself) that it makes us frustrated when it seems like it's always the MAN who is supposed to change, and when it seems like our wives aren't making more of an effort.
The "oh, that's just the way I am" thing is BULLCHIT when a man says it about never giving a woman flowers, even though he knows that she LOVES to receive them, and it's BULLCHIT when a woman says it about her lack of affection when she knows it is THE most important thing to her husband.
That's EXACTLY where I am. Of course, I never had a good, or even acceptable sex life with my W, but you hit my feelings dead center. I still have all of the desire for sex that I ever had, but it's becoming more and more isolated from my feelings for her. It makes other more physical women very tempting - and I don't want them to be. I feel like even my once in a blue moon hand job is a burden to her - and I HATE that. I hate it so much that I don't even want the HJ. A hand job, while not really what I want, would still be marginally acceptable if it were done with passion and desire. When it's not, my love bank is empty as well.
CeMar, Well that's NOT what you said the first time around but who cares.
I happen to agree with every single word you wrote this time. You deserve to have that kind of marriage, as we all do.
That is why I will not settle for less. I did for many years and I am no longer willing to do that. I stand my ground in a loving way, but it is firm ground. He knows exactly how I feel, and what the stakes are, should he decide that he doesn't want to participate any longer.
That is the difference here. You must sit her down and have a talk with her.
Here is my suspicion: You don't want to talk to your wife because you are scared sh*tless to have the following conversation with her: Wife if nothing changes, I will have to leave. You are scared that she will say, Fine then leave, and in essence force your hand and you will be packing your bags before you know what hit ya.
But don't you think you could POSSIBLY be underestimating your wife and her love for you? How do you KNOW what her reaction will be? YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even if she does say, Fine leave, you are under no obligation to pack your bags right then. You can do it on your own time, at your own leisure. Take 10 years if you feel you want to be there for your sons.
But for goodness' sakes, lay it out on the line for her. I would bet that a good portion of your anger is actually anger at yourSELF due to your inability to confront the situation head on.
I know that with my situation I was very very mad at myself for a long time, for allowing things to develop as they had. I was mad as hell at HIM also but more mad at selling myself out and going along with his nonsense.
I feel for you; hope you are able to talk to her soon.
I call it my "Excuse of the Month Club". And as Michelle says, who cares what the reason is, look for solutions. As for the Bait and Switch, I do believe this is VERY common. Afterall, would any young women in the dating world tell her suitors, "Ya knwo, I really could care less about sex". They would be burning rubber backing out of the driveway. Some women know they are LD very early, and they have to hide it. My wife was not LD early on though. She was HD for 4 years, and then all the "Problems" came into her life. I bet I could come up with 20 reasons whey she id LD. Where to start?
Yes, I need to sit down with the wife and clearly spell out what it is I want in my marriage, you know, do it the PM way. I have to maintain my integrity. I have to be the man I want to be. I will give it time, since I will not leave this relationship as long as I have contributions to the problem that need to be addressed.
Quote: I was mad as hell at HIM also but more mad at selling myself out and going along with his nonsense.
Same here. It is my responsibility to fix this issue with myself before I get up and leave.
Quote: I bet I could come up with 20 reasons whey she is LD. Where to start?
I may have missed this, but have you asked her? Point blank? My W used to be the queen of excuses. I got her into counseling and asked her point blank in the presence of the C, "why no sex?" She, of course offered the excuse of the month. I addressed that, then asked her again - again in the presence of the C. She came up with another excuse, which I in turn addressed. I did everything from getting a vasectomy to replacing the bedroom door. This went on for quite a while before she finally admitted the truth - she simply doesn't like sex. Never has and probably never will. But unsatisfactory as the end result may have been, I did force her to give up the excuse of the month and get to the actual reason. I may be trying to apply my situation where it doesn't really fit, but I would suspect that if you can force her to quit making excuses and tell you the reason instead of just the excuses, you'll find that there really is some reason why she no longer feels passion.
But either way, I feel for you. I've complained that my W doing the little affectionate things that pique my interest, coming to bed naked, and other things of that nature are torture for me. That's flaunting it in front of me. I'm sure you feel the same way. You had a passionate HDW that disappeared leaving someone who just looks like her in her place. Living with this woman and remembering the R you once had has to be hard.
I may have missed this, but have you asked her? Point blank?
wildebub, Technically we shouldn't be asking this. We should simply be stating what we want, asking what we need to do to get there, and clearly providing what the consequences will be if things don't change. Then it's up to the LD spouse.
When I discovered PM, and learned to approach issues from a very "personal" set of "wants" instead of worrying about how to "fix" things, my anxiety went away completely. The recovery of a sex life takes very little work...just tough, gut wrenching communication where you put your balls on the table.
It would be interesting to see if someone could journal here for 3 days without trying to analyze what is going on inside their LD spouse. I tried to read some posts where I skipped over anything that did this and it was really interesting.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I agree with Dave. It is natural to want to look for "cause and effect" when dealing with this sort of problem. In order to be successful, we have to put away our tinkering tools and diagnostic manuals and simply treat our spouses as people with "free will". Of course, our first reaction to assuming that our spouses have free will in expressing or working on their desire for us may be anger or sadness. We can tolerate the idea of a spouse stricken with low desire , but we are wounded by the notion that our spouse is choosing not to have sex with us. But, then we remember... we are people with free will also (we differentiate). We can choose whether to remain married or emotionally committed to someone who is choosing not to have sex with us.
Love, like liberty, only truly belongs to people of free will who are willing to stand up for their rights. DO SOMETHING. Chant a constant refrain of "What do I want?SEX!.When do I want it? NOW!". Sit on your bed cross-legged and refuse to move until your demands are met. Go on strike; refuse to cook dinner for your spouse or refuse to eat any food prepared by your spouse. Pack your bags and say "This cock was made for f**king and these boots are made for walking." or simply state your position as clearly as possible as often as needed until your spouse chooses to meet your demands.
What do you have to lose? You know the answer. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. There is no easy out. Be brave, express yourself, exercise your free will. Down with the tyranny of the frigid minority! Smash the Berlin wall of low desire! Vote YES for sex!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
